New initiative in Rooksdown

Basingstoke Gazette: Dog mess sprayed with paint in bid to shame irresponsible owners Dog mess sprayed with paint in bid to shame irresponsible owners

VOLUNTEERS in a Basingstoke suburb are spraying dog droppings bright yellow in a bid to shame irresponsible dog owners.

Reports of dog-fouling to Rooksdown Community Association are on the rise, with Rooksdown Park named as a problem hotspot.

The association has now paid for cans of spray paint for volunteers, including responsible dog walkers and mothers who push prams, who have stepped forward to help out.

Simon Bound, development manager at Rooksdown Community Association, said: “We hope it will have a double impact.

“People will be able to clearly see the dog poo, so they will not push their prams through it or step in it by mistake, and also irresponsible dog owners will be aware that we are aware that they are not picking up their dog poo.”

The scheme has been running since the beginning of December, and Mr Bound said Rooksdown residents have been very supportive of it.

Basingstoke and Deane Borough Council employs a dog warden who can issue a £50 on-the-spot fine to anyone caught not clearing up their dog’s mess on land open to the public.

It also has a form on its website where people can report others who flout the rules.

Some parks in the borough have special bins for dog mess, although bags can also be placed in general rubbish bins.

Mr Bound said he came up with the idea after hearing of other groups using it successfully in different areas of the UK.

Comments (51)

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10:26am Sun 12 Jan 14

Marina Morris says...

Surely it would be more effective to scoop it up and shove it through the offenders letter box? Leaving it in situ doesn't solve the problem at all.
Surely it would be more effective to scoop it up and shove it through the offenders letter box? Leaving it in situ doesn't solve the problem at all. Marina Morris

10:13am Mon 13 Jan 14

robertspet8 says...

Marina Morris wrote:
Surely it would be more effective to scoop it up and shove it through the offenders letter box? Leaving it in situ doesn't solve the problem at all.
A few years ago we had a problem with somebody letting their dog foul front lawns in our street. When I identified who it was I put the next deposit in a plastic bag, took it to the his house and gave it to him with these words, 'Next time it will be delivered without the benefit of a bag.' He always cleared up after that (or maybe let his dog foul another street). This man was middle aged, short and fat. I don't think I would try the same tactics with a young, fit bloke.
[quote][p][bold]Marina Morris[/bold] wrote: Surely it would be more effective to scoop it up and shove it through the offenders letter box? Leaving it in situ doesn't solve the problem at all.[/p][/quote]A few years ago we had a problem with somebody letting their dog foul front lawns in our street. When I identified who it was I put the next deposit in a plastic bag, took it to the his house and gave it to him with these words, 'Next time it will be delivered without the benefit of a bag.' He always cleared up after that (or maybe let his dog foul another street). This man was middle aged, short and fat. I don't think I would try the same tactics with a young, fit bloke. robertspet8

10:13am Mon 13 Jan 14

robertspet8 says...

Marina Morris wrote:
Surely it would be more effective to scoop it up and shove it through the offenders letter box? Leaving it in situ doesn't solve the problem at all.
A few years ago we had a problem with somebody letting their dog foul front lawns in our street. When I identified who it was I put the next deposit in a plastic bag, took it to the his house and gave it to him with these words, 'Next time it will be delivered without the benefit of a bag.' He always cleared up after that (or maybe let his dog foul another street). This man was middle aged, short and fat. I don't think I would try the same tactics with a young, fit bloke.
[quote][p][bold]Marina Morris[/bold] wrote: Surely it would be more effective to scoop it up and shove it through the offenders letter box? Leaving it in situ doesn't solve the problem at all.[/p][/quote]A few years ago we had a problem with somebody letting their dog foul front lawns in our street. When I identified who it was I put the next deposit in a plastic bag, took it to the his house and gave it to him with these words, 'Next time it will be delivered without the benefit of a bag.' He always cleared up after that (or maybe let his dog foul another street). This man was middle aged, short and fat. I don't think I would try the same tactics with a young, fit bloke. robertspet8

12:44pm Mon 13 Jan 14

jonone says...

robertspet8 wrote:
Marina Morris wrote: Surely it would be more effective to scoop it up and shove it through the offenders letter box? Leaving it in situ doesn't solve the problem at all.
A few years ago we had a problem with somebody letting their dog foul front lawns in our street. When I identified who it was I put the next deposit in a plastic bag, took it to the his house and gave it to him with these words, 'Next time it will be delivered without the benefit of a bag.' He always cleared up after that (or maybe let his dog foul another street). This man was middle aged, short and fat. I don't think I would try the same tactics with a young, fit bloke.
Someone two doors down from me allows their dog to foul wherever they please, grass, pavements etc. I am sure that any efforts to question him would result in "f*** off" and if I tried your approach, I would end up in intensive care. A brainless thug like him would not give two hoots about paint around the poo.
[quote][p][bold]robertspet8[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Marina Morris[/bold] wrote: Surely it would be more effective to scoop it up and shove it through the offenders letter box? Leaving it in situ doesn't solve the problem at all.[/p][/quote]A few years ago we had a problem with somebody letting their dog foul front lawns in our street. When I identified who it was I put the next deposit in a plastic bag, took it to the his house and gave it to him with these words, 'Next time it will be delivered without the benefit of a bag.' He always cleared up after that (or maybe let his dog foul another street). This man was middle aged, short and fat. I don't think I would try the same tactics with a young, fit bloke.[/p][/quote]Someone two doors down from me allows their dog to foul wherever they please, grass, pavements etc. I am sure that any efforts to question him would result in "f*** off" and if I tried your approach, I would end up in intensive care. A brainless thug like him would not give two hoots about paint around the poo. jonone

12:55pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Sam_Walker123456 says...

jonone says, 'Someone two doors down from me allows their dog to foul wherever they please, grass, pavements etc. I am sure that any efforts to question him would result in "f*** off" and if I tried your approach, I would end up in intensive care. A brainless thug like him would not give two hoots about paint around the poo.'
You might be wrong, he could be a coward. Give it a go and I promise to bring you some grapes it you are right.
jonone says, 'Someone two doors down from me allows their dog to foul wherever they please, grass, pavements etc. I am sure that any efforts to question him would result in "f*** off" and if I tried your approach, I would end up in intensive care. A brainless thug like him would not give two hoots about paint around the poo.' You might be wrong, he could be a coward. Give it a go and I promise to bring you some grapes it you are right. Sam_Walker123456

1:42pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Folkestone Saint says...

jonone wrote:
robertspet8 wrote:
Marina Morris wrote: Surely it would be more effective to scoop it up and shove it through the offenders letter box? Leaving it in situ doesn't solve the problem at all.
A few years ago we had a problem with somebody letting their dog foul front lawns in our street. When I identified who it was I put the next deposit in a plastic bag, took it to the his house and gave it to him with these words, 'Next time it will be delivered without the benefit of a bag.' He always cleared up after that (or maybe let his dog foul another street). This man was middle aged, short and fat. I don't think I would try the same tactics with a young, fit bloke.
Someone two doors down from me allows their dog to foul wherever they please, grass, pavements etc. I am sure that any efforts to question him would result in "f*** off" and if I tried your approach, I would end up in intensive care. A brainless thug like him would not give two hoots about paint around the poo.
If it happens that often take pictures of him and report him to the police and/or council, then if he gets the full fine he might think twice before he ca't be bothered to pick it up
[quote][p][bold]jonone[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]robertspet8[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Marina Morris[/bold] wrote: Surely it would be more effective to scoop it up and shove it through the offenders letter box? Leaving it in situ doesn't solve the problem at all.[/p][/quote]A few years ago we had a problem with somebody letting their dog foul front lawns in our street. When I identified who it was I put the next deposit in a plastic bag, took it to the his house and gave it to him with these words, 'Next time it will be delivered without the benefit of a bag.' He always cleared up after that (or maybe let his dog foul another street). This man was middle aged, short and fat. I don't think I would try the same tactics with a young, fit bloke.[/p][/quote]Someone two doors down from me allows their dog to foul wherever they please, grass, pavements etc. I am sure that any efforts to question him would result in "f*** off" and if I tried your approach, I would end up in intensive care. A brainless thug like him would not give two hoots about paint around the poo.[/p][/quote]If it happens that often take pictures of him and report him to the police and/or council, then if he gets the full fine he might think twice before he ca't be bothered to pick it up Folkestone Saint

3:02pm Mon 13 Jan 14

jbee37 says...

If the council employ a dog warden and this problem is occuring in particular area, then why hasn't anyone been prosecuted? a £1000 fine should sort the problem out and for a second offence, confiscate the dog!!
If the council employ a dog warden and this problem is occuring in particular area, then why hasn't anyone been prosecuted? a £1000 fine should sort the problem out and for a second offence, confiscate the dog!! jbee37

3:36pm Mon 13 Jan 14

jonone says...

Sam_Walker123456 wrote:
jonone says, 'Someone two doors down from me allows their dog to foul wherever they please, grass, pavements etc. I am sure that any efforts to question him would result in "f*** off" and if I tried your approach, I would end up in intensive care. A brainless thug like him would not give two hoots about paint around the poo.' You might be wrong, he could be a coward. Give it a go and I promise to bring you some grapes it you are right.
I doubt it very much, so will not try it! His dog knocked a neighbour's kid over in the street once, his only reaction was to shout to the dog to come back - no concern shown for the boy knocked over.
[quote][p][bold]Sam_Walker123456[/bold] wrote: jonone says, 'Someone two doors down from me allows their dog to foul wherever they please, grass, pavements etc. I am sure that any efforts to question him would result in "f*** off" and if I tried your approach, I would end up in intensive care. A brainless thug like him would not give two hoots about paint around the poo.' You might be wrong, he could be a coward. Give it a go and I promise to bring you some grapes it you are right.[/p][/quote]I doubt it very much, so will not try it! His dog knocked a neighbour's kid over in the street once, his only reaction was to shout to the dog to come back - no concern shown for the boy knocked over. jonone

8:31am Tue 14 Jan 14

handsov says...

I hardly think theta the type of person who clearly can't be bothered to clear up their dog's mess is likely to feel any shame when seeing the mess left behind sprayed bright yellow. Sounds like a waste of time and money to me. It is bad enough having to see your local area covered in dog mess, let alone piles of bright yellow dog mess.
I hardly think theta the type of person who clearly can't be bothered to clear up their dog's mess is likely to feel any shame when seeing the mess left behind sprayed bright yellow. Sounds like a waste of time and money to me. It is bad enough having to see your local area covered in dog mess, let alone piles of bright yellow dog mess. handsov

9:24am Tue 14 Jan 14

laurence86 says...

Surely the chemicals in the paint are actually more harmful to the environment than the dog mess? Whilst the dog mess is unpleasant it is at least organic matter, and in time will be broken down by micro organisms. I know that modern spray paints use hydrofluorocarbons which are more environmentally friendly than the old spray paint that utilised chemicals such as chlorine but they are still non-organic compounds.
Surely the chemicals in the paint are actually more harmful to the environment than the dog mess? Whilst the dog mess is unpleasant it is at least organic matter, and in time will be broken down by micro organisms. I know that modern spray paints use hydrofluorocarbons which are more environmentally friendly than the old spray paint that utilised chemicals such as chlorine but they are still non-organic compounds. laurence86

10:11am Tue 14 Jan 14

Folkestone Saint says...

laurence86 wrote:
Surely the chemicals in the paint are actually more harmful to the environment than the dog mess? Whilst the dog mess is unpleasant it is at least organic matter, and in time will be broken down by micro organisms. I know that modern spray paints use hydrofluorocarbons which are more environmentally friendly than the old spray paint that utilised chemicals such as chlorine but they are still non-organic compounds.
Dog mess has been found to carry a paracite that can make people blind, at least if it is bright yellow you have the chance of seeing it before treading it into your home. However unless people report the culprits it will never stop, I say fine them and take their dogs away.
[quote][p][bold]laurence86[/bold] wrote: Surely the chemicals in the paint are actually more harmful to the environment than the dog mess? Whilst the dog mess is unpleasant it is at least organic matter, and in time will be broken down by micro organisms. I know that modern spray paints use hydrofluorocarbons which are more environmentally friendly than the old spray paint that utilised chemicals such as chlorine but they are still non-organic compounds.[/p][/quote]Dog mess has been found to carry a paracite that can make people blind, at least if it is bright yellow you have the chance of seeing it before treading it into your home. However unless people report the culprits it will never stop, I say fine them and take their dogs away. Folkestone Saint

11:16am Tue 14 Jan 14

Buster Preciation says...

Most people seem to be in agreement that dog mess is unacceptable and dog owners should be held to account. Good. So I find it strange that a lot of people are more defensive when it comes to cats. Especially since they have a greater ability to leave their mess on other peoples' property. Can anyone explain the difference?
Most people seem to be in agreement that dog mess is unacceptable and dog owners should be held to account. Good. So I find it strange that a lot of people are more defensive when it comes to cats. Especially since they have a greater ability to leave their mess on other peoples' property. Can anyone explain the difference? Buster Preciation

12:21pm Tue 14 Jan 14

W Wallace says...

I own a dog and I can honestly say I have never once seen the dog warden whilst out walking mine. Where is this man with the ability to fine nuisance dog owners, I can point him in the direction of repeat offenders.

Also this spraypaint, how easy is it to wash off your clothes/trainers should you be unfortunate enough not to see it and step in it?.
I own a dog and I can honestly say I have never once seen the dog warden whilst out walking mine. Where is this man with the ability to fine nuisance dog owners, I can point him in the direction of repeat offenders. Also this spraypaint, how easy is it to wash off your clothes/trainers should you be unfortunate enough not to see it and step in it?. W Wallace

12:44pm Tue 14 Jan 14

Best_Name_Ever says...

Buster Preciation wrote:
Most people seem to be in agreement that dog mess is unacceptable and dog owners should be held to account. Good. So I find it strange that a lot of people are more defensive when it comes to cats. Especially since they have a greater ability to leave their mess on other peoples' property. Can anyone explain the difference?
I though cats buried their mess? I don't think I have ever trodden in cat mess, but I know for sure that I have stepped in dogs mess - several times.
[quote][p][bold]Buster Preciation[/bold] wrote: Most people seem to be in agreement that dog mess is unacceptable and dog owners should be held to account. Good. So I find it strange that a lot of people are more defensive when it comes to cats. Especially since they have a greater ability to leave their mess on other peoples' property. Can anyone explain the difference?[/p][/quote]I though cats buried their mess? I don't think I have ever trodden in cat mess, but I know for sure that I have stepped in dogs mess - several times. Best_Name_Ever

2:08pm Tue 14 Jan 14

Sam_Walker123456 says...

handsov wrote:
I hardly think theta the type of person who clearly can't be bothered to clear up their dog's mess is likely to feel any shame when seeing the mess left behind sprayed bright yellow. Sounds like a waste of time and money to me. It is bad enough having to see your local area covered in dog mess, let alone piles of bright yellow dog mess.
it probably is mostly a waste of time. I can only see two benefits:
1 The rest of us are unlikely to step in bright yellow dog mess
2 The people doing the spraying feel that they are doing some good for the community
[quote][p][bold]handsov[/bold] wrote: I hardly think theta the type of person who clearly can't be bothered to clear up their dog's mess is likely to feel any shame when seeing the mess left behind sprayed bright yellow. Sounds like a waste of time and money to me. It is bad enough having to see your local area covered in dog mess, let alone piles of bright yellow dog mess.[/p][/quote]it probably is mostly a waste of time. I can only see two benefits: 1 The rest of us are unlikely to step in bright yellow dog mess 2 The people doing the spraying feel that they are doing some good for the community Sam_Walker123456

2:12pm Tue 14 Jan 14

Opinions_opinions says...

Neighbour's dog would constantly come and poo in my front garden despite my constant complaining to the owner to A: Keep her dog on a lead in the street as it was a large dog and had no road sense. B: pick up after it when it decides to take a dump. I would get the usual standard apologies, but nothing ever changed. So I waited for the dog to do a weeks worth of poo in my Garden, and then one day I scooped it all up with a shovel and quite openly deposited on their front door step. There was quite a load waiting for their arrival. I was hoping they would come and confront me when they saw me depositing it, but they didn't. I never had another case of poo in my garden. Funny that ......
Neighbour's dog would constantly come and poo in my front garden despite my constant complaining to the owner to A: Keep her dog on a lead in the street as it was a large dog and had no road sense. B: pick up after it when it decides to take a dump. I would get the usual standard apologies, but nothing ever changed. So I waited for the dog to do a weeks worth of poo in my Garden, and then one day I scooped it all up with a shovel and quite openly deposited on their front door step. There was quite a load waiting for their arrival. I was hoping they would come and confront me when they saw me depositing it, but they didn't. I never had another case of poo in my garden. Funny that ...... Opinions_opinions

2:23pm Tue 14 Jan 14

robertspet8 says...

Buster Preciation wrote:
Most people seem to be in agreement that dog mess is unacceptable and dog owners should be held to account. Good. So I find it strange that a lot of people are more defensive when it comes to cats. Especially since they have a greater ability to leave their mess on other peoples' property. Can anyone explain the difference?
Don't get me started Buster!! In my opinion virtually all cat owners are irresponsible whereas this article and comments are direct at the small percentage of irresponsible dog owners. Cat owners are very defensive claiming that cats are 'free spirits' and it would be cruel to train them to walk on a lead like dogs. What they really mean is that they got a cat because they are too lazy to train any animal. Cats are as intelligent as dogs and can be trained to do the same as dogs. But no, they are allowed to roam free, decimating the local wildlife and defecating whereever they like. True they try to bury their droppings, as do some dogs, but this is as likely to be in a neighbour's flowerbed or children's play pit as in somewhere harmless. And if the ground is too hard they will leave their droppings on lawns and other places they can be trod in. Their faeces can also carry the parasite which can cause blindness. Perhaps if the yellow spray contained something which would kill the parasite it would be an added bonus.
[quote][p][bold]Buster Preciation[/bold] wrote: Most people seem to be in agreement that dog mess is unacceptable and dog owners should be held to account. Good. So I find it strange that a lot of people are more defensive when it comes to cats. Especially since they have a greater ability to leave their mess on other peoples' property. Can anyone explain the difference?[/p][/quote]Don't get me started Buster!! In my opinion virtually all cat owners are irresponsible whereas this article and comments are direct at the small percentage of irresponsible dog owners. Cat owners are very defensive claiming that cats are 'free spirits' and it would be cruel to train them to walk on a lead like dogs. What they really mean is that they got a cat because they are too lazy to train any animal. Cats are as intelligent as dogs and can be trained to do the same as dogs. But no, they are allowed to roam free, decimating the local wildlife and defecating whereever they like. True they try to bury their droppings, as do some dogs, but this is as likely to be in a neighbour's flowerbed or children's play pit as in somewhere harmless. And if the ground is too hard they will leave their droppings on lawns and other places they can be trod in. Their faeces can also carry the parasite which can cause blindness. Perhaps if the yellow spray contained something which would kill the parasite it would be an added bonus. robertspet8

10:01am Wed 15 Jan 14

laurence86 says...

robertspet8 wrote:
Buster Preciation wrote: Most people seem to be in agreement that dog mess is unacceptable and dog owners should be held to account. Good. So I find it strange that a lot of people are more defensive when it comes to cats. Especially since they have a greater ability to leave their mess on other peoples' property. Can anyone explain the difference?
Don't get me started Buster!! In my opinion virtually all cat owners are irresponsible whereas this article and comments are direct at the small percentage of irresponsible dog owners. Cat owners are very defensive claiming that cats are 'free spirits' and it would be cruel to train them to walk on a lead like dogs. What they really mean is that they got a cat because they are too lazy to train any animal. Cats are as intelligent as dogs and can be trained to do the same as dogs. But no, they are allowed to roam free, decimating the local wildlife and defecating whereever they like. True they try to bury their droppings, as do some dogs, but this is as likely to be in a neighbour's flowerbed or children's play pit as in somewhere harmless. And if the ground is too hard they will leave their droppings on lawns and other places they can be trod in. Their faeces can also carry the parasite which can cause blindness. Perhaps if the yellow spray contained something which would kill the parasite it would be an added bonus.
Not true dog and cats have been domesticated for different reasons. Dogs have traditionally been bred to work closely with man as a tool. Cats have been used as a form of pest control, and work independently from man. Both have thousands of years of breading (dogs a lot longer than cats) for these different purposes. They also have both evolved from a different background, Dogs have evolved from grey wolves a pack animal and so are aware of group hierarchy and discipline. Domestic Cats are evolved from Genus Felis a small group of cats who live and hunt independently (not like lions) therefore have no concept of hierarchy or teamwork. It is not yet possible to train a cat the same way as a dog, although their behaviour is changing as they have become less of a working animal.

If the scheme has worked elsewhere then I welcome it here as well. Now if we could just stop the Fox’s pooping everywhere!
[quote][p][bold]robertspet8[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Buster Preciation[/bold] wrote: Most people seem to be in agreement that dog mess is unacceptable and dog owners should be held to account. Good. So I find it strange that a lot of people are more defensive when it comes to cats. Especially since they have a greater ability to leave their mess on other peoples' property. Can anyone explain the difference?[/p][/quote]Don't get me started Buster!! In my opinion virtually all cat owners are irresponsible whereas this article and comments are direct at the small percentage of irresponsible dog owners. Cat owners are very defensive claiming that cats are 'free spirits' and it would be cruel to train them to walk on a lead like dogs. What they really mean is that they got a cat because they are too lazy to train any animal. Cats are as intelligent as dogs and can be trained to do the same as dogs. But no, they are allowed to roam free, decimating the local wildlife and defecating whereever they like. True they try to bury their droppings, as do some dogs, but this is as likely to be in a neighbour's flowerbed or children's play pit as in somewhere harmless. And if the ground is too hard they will leave their droppings on lawns and other places they can be trod in. Their faeces can also carry the parasite which can cause blindness. Perhaps if the yellow spray contained something which would kill the parasite it would be an added bonus.[/p][/quote]Not true dog and cats have been domesticated for different reasons. Dogs have traditionally been bred to work closely with man as a tool. Cats have been used as a form of pest control, and work independently from man. Both have thousands of years of breading (dogs a lot longer than cats) for these different purposes. They also have both evolved from a different background, Dogs have evolved from grey wolves a pack animal and so are aware of group hierarchy and discipline. Domestic Cats are evolved from Genus Felis a small group of cats who live and hunt independently (not like lions) therefore have no concept of hierarchy or teamwork. It is not yet possible to train a cat the same way as a dog, although their behaviour is changing as they have become less of a working animal. If the scheme has worked elsewhere then I welcome it here as well. Now if we could just stop the Fox’s pooping everywhere! laurence86

10:26am Wed 15 Jan 14

Folkestone Saint says...

laurence86 wrote:
robertspet8 wrote:
Buster Preciation wrote: Most people seem to be in agreement that dog mess is unacceptable and dog owners should be held to account. Good. So I find it strange that a lot of people are more defensive when it comes to cats. Especially since they have a greater ability to leave their mess on other peoples' property. Can anyone explain the difference?
Don't get me started Buster!! In my opinion virtually all cat owners are irresponsible whereas this article and comments are direct at the small percentage of irresponsible dog owners. Cat owners are very defensive claiming that cats are 'free spirits' and it would be cruel to train them to walk on a lead like dogs. What they really mean is that they got a cat because they are too lazy to train any animal. Cats are as intelligent as dogs and can be trained to do the same as dogs. But no, they are allowed to roam free, decimating the local wildlife and defecating whereever they like. True they try to bury their droppings, as do some dogs, but this is as likely to be in a neighbour's flowerbed or children's play pit as in somewhere harmless. And if the ground is too hard they will leave their droppings on lawns and other places they can be trod in. Their faeces can also carry the parasite which can cause blindness. Perhaps if the yellow spray contained something which would kill the parasite it would be an added bonus.
Not true dog and cats have been domesticated for different reasons. Dogs have traditionally been bred to work closely with man as a tool. Cats have been used as a form of pest control, and work independently from man. Both have thousands of years of breading (dogs a lot longer than cats) for these different purposes. They also have both evolved from a different background, Dogs have evolved from grey wolves a pack animal and so are aware of group hierarchy and discipline. Domestic Cats are evolved from Genus Felis a small group of cats who live and hunt independently (not like lions) therefore have no concept of hierarchy or teamwork. It is not yet possible to train a cat the same way as a dog, although their behaviour is changing as they have become less of a working animal.

If the scheme has worked elsewhere then I welcome it here as well. Now if we could just stop the Fox’s pooping everywhere!
Fox poo is nothing compared to the damage Seagull poo does down here, I say "sea"gull more like "binbag-gull"
[quote][p][bold]laurence86[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]robertspet8[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Buster Preciation[/bold] wrote: Most people seem to be in agreement that dog mess is unacceptable and dog owners should be held to account. Good. So I find it strange that a lot of people are more defensive when it comes to cats. Especially since they have a greater ability to leave their mess on other peoples' property. Can anyone explain the difference?[/p][/quote]Don't get me started Buster!! In my opinion virtually all cat owners are irresponsible whereas this article and comments are direct at the small percentage of irresponsible dog owners. Cat owners are very defensive claiming that cats are 'free spirits' and it would be cruel to train them to walk on a lead like dogs. What they really mean is that they got a cat because they are too lazy to train any animal. Cats are as intelligent as dogs and can be trained to do the same as dogs. But no, they are allowed to roam free, decimating the local wildlife and defecating whereever they like. True they try to bury their droppings, as do some dogs, but this is as likely to be in a neighbour's flowerbed or children's play pit as in somewhere harmless. And if the ground is too hard they will leave their droppings on lawns and other places they can be trod in. Their faeces can also carry the parasite which can cause blindness. Perhaps if the yellow spray contained something which would kill the parasite it would be an added bonus.[/p][/quote]Not true dog and cats have been domesticated for different reasons. Dogs have traditionally been bred to work closely with man as a tool. Cats have been used as a form of pest control, and work independently from man. Both have thousands of years of breading (dogs a lot longer than cats) for these different purposes. They also have both evolved from a different background, Dogs have evolved from grey wolves a pack animal and so are aware of group hierarchy and discipline. Domestic Cats are evolved from Genus Felis a small group of cats who live and hunt independently (not like lions) therefore have no concept of hierarchy or teamwork. It is not yet possible to train a cat the same way as a dog, although their behaviour is changing as they have become less of a working animal. If the scheme has worked elsewhere then I welcome it here as well. Now if we could just stop the Fox’s pooping everywhere![/p][/quote]Fox poo is nothing compared to the damage Seagull poo does down here, I say "sea"gull more like "binbag-gull" Folkestone Saint

11:37am Wed 15 Jan 14

robertspet8 says...

laurence86, you are correct that dogs and cats have different roots and were domesticated via different paths. However cats can be trained very successfully. It might be harder and take longer and we then get back to lazy per owners. Here is an extract from the RSPCA website:
'Most people believe that cats can’t be trained because cats don’t seem to respond to many of the methods used to train dogs. But cats do respond to training! In fact one of the first scientific studies highlighting the importance of reinforcement in animal behavior was done with cats.
The first step to training your cat is to understand him. Cats aren’t as social as dogs. Dogs have been bred specifically to work together with people, whereas the primary reason cats were domesticated was to kill vermin on their own. So they’re independent, and they aren’t as naturally inclined to work for praise and attention as dogs are. They’re also not as easy to motivate. You have to use really special treats that your cat finds irresistible. Training a cat requires some creativity and patience.
Training your cat has important benefits. You’re stimulating his body and his mind, which helps keep him healthy. And spending time together means you’re strengthening the bond you share. In addition to teaching fun tricks like wave and fetch, you can also teach him a range of useful behaviors like sit, stay and to come when called. You could even teach your cat to pee in the toilet and flush afterwards!'
laurence86, you are correct that dogs and cats have different roots and were domesticated via different paths. However cats can be trained very successfully. It might be harder and take longer and we then get back to lazy per owners. Here is an extract from the RSPCA website: 'Most people believe that cats can’t be trained because cats don’t seem to respond to many of the methods used to train dogs. But cats do respond to training! In fact one of the first scientific studies highlighting the importance of reinforcement in animal behavior was done with cats. The first step to training your cat is to understand him. Cats aren’t as social as dogs. Dogs have been bred specifically to work together with people, whereas the primary reason cats were domesticated was to kill vermin on their own. So they’re independent, and they aren’t as naturally inclined to work for praise and attention as dogs are. They’re also not as easy to motivate. You have to use really special treats that your cat finds irresistible. Training a cat requires some creativity and patience. Training your cat has important benefits. You’re stimulating his body and his mind, which helps keep him healthy. And spending time together means you’re strengthening the bond you share. In addition to teaching fun tricks like wave and fetch, you can also teach him a range of useful behaviors like sit, stay and to come when called. You could even teach your cat to pee in the toilet and flush afterwards!' robertspet8

12:38pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Honeybee123 says...

The big difference when talking about dogs and cats is that owners generally tend to be with a dog when it defecates whereas cats go out independently. I have a litter tray indoors for my cats and they use it, although I can't guarantee they don't also defecate outside when they're out. It's ludicruos to suggest you can have the same control over a cat as a dog. It would also be incredibly rare to find a cat who went on a pavement or footpath. They tend to find longer grass if they can't bury it for any reason. They are very clean animals.
The big difference when talking about dogs and cats is that owners generally tend to be with a dog when it defecates whereas cats go out independently. I have a litter tray indoors for my cats and they use it, although I can't guarantee they don't also defecate outside when they're out. It's ludicruos to suggest you can have the same control over a cat as a dog. It would also be incredibly rare to find a cat who went on a pavement or footpath. They tend to find longer grass if they can't bury it for any reason. They are very clean animals. Honeybee123

12:47pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Folkestone Saint says...

Honeybee123 wrote:
The big difference when talking about dogs and cats is that owners generally tend to be with a dog when it defecates whereas cats go out independently. I have a litter tray indoors for my cats and they use it, although I can't guarantee they don't also defecate outside when they're out. It's ludicruos to suggest you can have the same control over a cat as a dog. It would also be incredibly rare to find a cat who went on a pavement or footpath. They tend to find longer grass if they can't bury it for any reason. They are very clean animals.
Cats are only clean if you own one, I don't so I have to put up with the mess on my lawn in the veg patch, every where, plus I feed wild birds only to have cats murder them.
[quote][p][bold]Honeybee123[/bold] wrote: The big difference when talking about dogs and cats is that owners generally tend to be with a dog when it defecates whereas cats go out independently. I have a litter tray indoors for my cats and they use it, although I can't guarantee they don't also defecate outside when they're out. It's ludicruos to suggest you can have the same control over a cat as a dog. It would also be incredibly rare to find a cat who went on a pavement or footpath. They tend to find longer grass if they can't bury it for any reason. They are very clean animals.[/p][/quote]Cats are only clean if you own one, I don't so I have to put up with the mess on my lawn in the veg patch, every where, plus I feed wild birds only to have cats murder them. Folkestone Saint

1:09pm Wed 15 Jan 14

robertspet8 says...

Honeybee123 wrote:
The big difference when talking about dogs and cats is that owners generally tend to be with a dog when it defecates whereas cats go out independently. I have a litter tray indoors for my cats and they use it, although I can't guarantee they don't also defecate outside when they're out. It's ludicruos to suggest you can have the same control over a cat as a dog. It would also be incredibly rare to find a cat who went on a pavement or footpath. They tend to find longer grass if they can't bury it for any reason. They are very clean animals.
So the RSPA are being ludicrous?
No you cannot guarantee that your cats don't defecate outside because you are too lazy and set in your ways to try a different approach. If you trained your cats to walk on a lead or to heel and took them for regular walks and picked up their poo in a bag there would be no problem. Why you think hiding their poo in the longer grass where it can't be seen is an advantage beats me. I would rather they defecated where I can clearly see it and avoid stepping in it.
Cat owners claim cats are independant, solitary creatures but it seems they rarely respect this because they seldom own just one cat. This makes the problem worse because cats are territorial and they will have to go further afield to establish their own territory.
[quote][p][bold]Honeybee123[/bold] wrote: The big difference when talking about dogs and cats is that owners generally tend to be with a dog when it defecates whereas cats go out independently. I have a litter tray indoors for my cats and they use it, although I can't guarantee they don't also defecate outside when they're out. It's ludicruos to suggest you can have the same control over a cat as a dog. It would also be incredibly rare to find a cat who went on a pavement or footpath. They tend to find longer grass if they can't bury it for any reason. They are very clean animals.[/p][/quote]So the RSPA are being ludicrous? No you cannot guarantee that your cats don't defecate outside because you are too lazy and set in your ways to try a different approach. If you trained your cats to walk on a lead or to heel and took them for regular walks and picked up their poo in a bag there would be no problem. Why you think hiding their poo in the longer grass where it can't be seen is an advantage beats me. I would rather they defecated where I can clearly see it and avoid stepping in it. Cat owners claim cats are independant, solitary creatures but it seems they rarely respect this because they seldom own just one cat. This makes the problem worse because cats are territorial and they will have to go further afield to establish their own territory. robertspet8

1:28pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Buster Preciation says...

Best_Name_Ever wrote:
Buster Preciation wrote:
Most people seem to be in agreement that dog mess is unacceptable and dog owners should be held to account. Good. So I find it strange that a lot of people are more defensive when it comes to cats. Especially since they have a greater ability to leave their mess on other peoples' property. Can anyone explain the difference?
I though cats buried their mess? I don't think I have ever trodden in cat mess, but I know for sure that I have stepped in dogs mess - several times.
They instinctively make an attempt at burying it but it's seldom successful, especially on grass. Besides, is that meant to make it OK? I think I'd prefer it on the surface when I'm doing the gardening rather than hidden.
For me cat mess is worse because they have the ability to go on to private property which is inaccessible to dogs.
[quote][p][bold]Best_Name_Ever[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Buster Preciation[/bold] wrote: Most people seem to be in agreement that dog mess is unacceptable and dog owners should be held to account. Good. So I find it strange that a lot of people are more defensive when it comes to cats. Especially since they have a greater ability to leave their mess on other peoples' property. Can anyone explain the difference?[/p][/quote]I though cats buried their mess? I don't think I have ever trodden in cat mess, but I know for sure that I have stepped in dogs mess - several times.[/p][/quote]They instinctively make an attempt at burying it but it's seldom successful, especially on grass. Besides, is that meant to make it OK? I think I'd prefer it on the surface when I'm doing the gardening rather than hidden. For me cat mess is worse because they have the ability to go on to private property which is inaccessible to dogs. Buster Preciation

1:48pm Wed 15 Jan 14

laurence86 says...

Maybe the solution to this is just to ban all animals.

I am a little worried that I am going to step in some dog poop in the dark and get both crap and paint on my shoes.
Maybe the solution to this is just to ban all animals. I am a little worried that I am going to step in some dog poop in the dark and get both crap and paint on my shoes. laurence86

3:27pm Wed 15 Jan 14

jbee37 says...

If a Cat can be trained to go in a litter tray then it can be trained to go in a certain place in the owners garden. Cats tend to go in a place they've been before. I've tried everything to get rid of the army of Cats in my street that like to crap in my garden, from sprays to gels to an ultrasonic detector. The ultrasonic detector works quite well overa period of time but when the batteries start to fade, they just come back. I suppose the only real way to get rid of other peoples Cats is to get one yourself!!
If a Cat can be trained to go in a litter tray then it can be trained to go in a certain place in the owners garden. Cats tend to go in a place they've been before. I've tried everything to get rid of the army of Cats in my street that like to crap in my garden, from sprays to gels to an ultrasonic detector. The ultrasonic detector works quite well overa period of time but when the batteries start to fade, they just come back. I suppose the only real way to get rid of other peoples Cats is to get one yourself!! jbee37

4:23pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Honeybee123 says...

robertspet8 wrote:
Honeybee123 wrote:
The big difference when talking about dogs and cats is that owners generally tend to be with a dog when it defecates whereas cats go out independently. I have a litter tray indoors for my cats and they use it, although I can't guarantee they don't also defecate outside when they're out. It's ludicruos to suggest you can have the same control over a cat as a dog. It would also be incredibly rare to find a cat who went on a pavement or footpath. They tend to find longer grass if they can't bury it for any reason. They are very clean animals.
So the RSPA are being ludicrous?
No you cannot guarantee that your cats don't defecate outside because you are too lazy and set in your ways to try a different approach. If you trained your cats to walk on a lead or to heel and took them for regular walks and picked up their poo in a bag there would be no problem. Why you think hiding their poo in the longer grass where it can't be seen is an advantage beats me. I would rather they defecated where I can clearly see it and avoid stepping in it.
Cat owners claim cats are independant, solitary creatures but it seems they rarely respect this because they seldom own just one cat. This makes the problem worse because cats are territorial and they will have to go further afield to establish their own territory.
I am not lazy at all but I don't agree that you can train a cat in the same way you can train a dog and yes I do think the RSPCA are being ludicrous in their statement. I love my cats just the way they are and I minimise their disturbance to others by having a litter tray indoors and keeping them in at night. They are trained to come in on command but I can't ever stop their natural instincts and neither would I want to. Some kill wildlife, that's a fact of life but again I minimise this by making sure I don't attract birds into my own garden. I don't want to train my cat to walk with me or walk on a lead, if I wanted a dog I'd get one.
[quote][p][bold]robertspet8[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Honeybee123[/bold] wrote: The big difference when talking about dogs and cats is that owners generally tend to be with a dog when it defecates whereas cats go out independently. I have a litter tray indoors for my cats and they use it, although I can't guarantee they don't also defecate outside when they're out. It's ludicruos to suggest you can have the same control over a cat as a dog. It would also be incredibly rare to find a cat who went on a pavement or footpath. They tend to find longer grass if they can't bury it for any reason. They are very clean animals.[/p][/quote]So the RSPA are being ludicrous? No you cannot guarantee that your cats don't defecate outside because you are too lazy and set in your ways to try a different approach. If you trained your cats to walk on a lead or to heel and took them for regular walks and picked up their poo in a bag there would be no problem. Why you think hiding their poo in the longer grass where it can't be seen is an advantage beats me. I would rather they defecated where I can clearly see it and avoid stepping in it. Cat owners claim cats are independant, solitary creatures but it seems they rarely respect this because they seldom own just one cat. This makes the problem worse because cats are territorial and they will have to go further afield to establish their own territory.[/p][/quote]I am not lazy at all but I don't agree that you can train a cat in the same way you can train a dog and yes I do think the RSPCA are being ludicrous in their statement. I love my cats just the way they are and I minimise their disturbance to others by having a litter tray indoors and keeping them in at night. They are trained to come in on command but I can't ever stop their natural instincts and neither would I want to. Some kill wildlife, that's a fact of life but again I minimise this by making sure I don't attract birds into my own garden. I don't want to train my cat to walk with me or walk on a lead, if I wanted a dog I'd get one. Honeybee123

4:57pm Wed 15 Jan 14

robertspet8 says...

Honeybee123, it is not only the RSPCA which advocates training cats - you only have to google 'cat training' or similar wording to find hundreds of sites offering help and advice. This advice is not only there to reduce the nuisance your cats cause to those of us who don't have cats but also, and maybe more importantly for you, to help protect your cats from harm.
In some parts of the world it is compulsory for dogs and cats to be kept on a lead when outside.
You are not minimising the impact your cats have on others or wildlife - all you are doing is making sure you don't witness it (out of sight out of mind).
If you trained your cats they would not become dogs and you would still have the same interaction with them as you enjoy now. The only difference is that you would have to get off your bum to give them walks.
Honeybee123, it is not only the RSPCA which advocates training cats - you only have to google 'cat training' or similar wording to find hundreds of sites offering help and advice. This advice is not only there to reduce the nuisance your cats cause to those of us who don't have cats but also, and maybe more importantly for you, to help protect your cats from harm. In some parts of the world it is compulsory for dogs and cats to be kept on a lead when outside. You are not minimising the impact your cats have on others or wildlife - all you are doing is making sure you don't witness it (out of sight out of mind). If you trained your cats they would not become dogs and you would still have the same interaction with them as you enjoy now. The only difference is that you would have to get off your bum to give them walks. robertspet8

5:02pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Honeybee123 says...

robertspet8 wrote:
Honeybee123, it is not only the RSPCA which advocates training cats - you only have to google 'cat training' or similar wording to find hundreds of sites offering help and advice. This advice is not only there to reduce the nuisance your cats cause to those of us who don't have cats but also, and maybe more importantly for you, to help protect your cats from harm.
In some parts of the world it is compulsory for dogs and cats to be kept on a lead when outside.
You are not minimising the impact your cats have on others or wildlife - all you are doing is making sure you don't witness it (out of sight out of mind).
If you trained your cats they would not become dogs and you would still have the same interaction with them as you enjoy now. The only difference is that you would have to get off your bum to give them walks.
You are incredibly rude.
[quote][p][bold]robertspet8[/bold] wrote: Honeybee123, it is not only the RSPCA which advocates training cats - you only have to google 'cat training' or similar wording to find hundreds of sites offering help and advice. This advice is not only there to reduce the nuisance your cats cause to those of us who don't have cats but also, and maybe more importantly for you, to help protect your cats from harm. In some parts of the world it is compulsory for dogs and cats to be kept on a lead when outside. You are not minimising the impact your cats have on others or wildlife - all you are doing is making sure you don't witness it (out of sight out of mind). If you trained your cats they would not become dogs and you would still have the same interaction with them as you enjoy now. The only difference is that you would have to get off your bum to give them walks.[/p][/quote]You are incredibly rude. Honeybee123

5:45pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Folkestone Saint says...

robertspet8 wrote:
Honeybee123, it is not only the RSPCA which advocates training cats - you only have to google 'cat training' or similar wording to find hundreds of sites offering help and advice. This advice is not only there to reduce the nuisance your cats cause to those of us who don't have cats but also, and maybe more importantly for you, to help protect your cats from harm.
In some parts of the world it is compulsory for dogs and cats to be kept on a lead when outside.
You are not minimising the impact your cats have on others or wildlife - all you are doing is making sure you don't witness it (out of sight out of mind).
If you trained your cats they would not become dogs and you would still have the same interaction with them as you enjoy now. The only difference is that you would have to get off your bum to give them walks.
There should be a tax on dog and cat food, dog food to pay for the cleaning of their waste, and cat food so the RSPB can buy plots of cat free land for wild life
[quote][p][bold]robertspet8[/bold] wrote: Honeybee123, it is not only the RSPCA which advocates training cats - you only have to google 'cat training' or similar wording to find hundreds of sites offering help and advice. This advice is not only there to reduce the nuisance your cats cause to those of us who don't have cats but also, and maybe more importantly for you, to help protect your cats from harm. In some parts of the world it is compulsory for dogs and cats to be kept on a lead when outside. You are not minimising the impact your cats have on others or wildlife - all you are doing is making sure you don't witness it (out of sight out of mind). If you trained your cats they would not become dogs and you would still have the same interaction with them as you enjoy now. The only difference is that you would have to get off your bum to give them walks.[/p][/quote]There should be a tax on dog and cat food, dog food to pay for the cleaning of their waste, and cat food so the RSPB can buy plots of cat free land for wild life Folkestone Saint

8:13pm Wed 15 Jan 14

popleyrebel2 says...

I’m a dog lover, my first dog lived till she was 15 years old, after a period of time we decided to have another dog and she lived to the right old age of 18. We are now looking after our daughter’s dog while she is at work.
Therefore, we have gone from dog owners to dog walker and as the dog is old we are dog carers, in all our time with dogs we have always cleaned up after them.
It’s the dog’s owner/walker responsibility to do so. There is no excuse.
I’m a dog lover, my first dog lived till she was 15 years old, after a period of time we decided to have another dog and she lived to the right old age of 18. We are now looking after our daughter’s dog while she is at work. Therefore, we have gone from dog owners to dog walker and as the dog is old we are dog carers, in all our time with dogs we have always cleaned up after them. It’s the dog’s owner/walker responsibility to do so. There is no excuse. popleyrebel2

9:56pm Wed 15 Jan 14

BeggarwoodResident says...

It's always the minority that give us all a bad name! I can't believe that people are so lazy that they don't carry a poo bag with them and pick up their dog's mess. I'm so paranoid about this I take at least four bags with me every time I walk my two dogs. I have been known to forget a poo bag, dog's fouled in the park so I've come home, grabbed a poo bag and gone back to pick it up.

It's quite simply disgusting!

The only benefit spraying it yellow is to help people avoid stepping in it. I can't see how it's going to 'shame' anyone, because they clearly don't care.
It's always the minority that give us all a bad name! I can't believe that people are so lazy that they don't carry a poo bag with them and pick up their dog's mess. I'm so paranoid about this I take at least four bags with me every time I walk my two dogs. I have been known to forget a poo bag, dog's fouled in the park so I've come home, grabbed a poo bag and gone back to pick it up. It's quite simply disgusting! The only benefit spraying it yellow is to help people avoid stepping in it. I can't see how it's going to 'shame' anyone, because they clearly don't care. BeggarwoodResident

8:49am Thu 16 Jan 14

bonniepuss says...

To avoid a cat making mess in gardens:

Keep it in at all times. Mine is a house cat and is happier that way. She is scared of 'outside'. She has not one, but two, litter boxes. To satisfy her instinct to 'hunt' she has a large collection of toys, which still keep her occupied, at the age of 5.5 years.
To avoid a cat making mess in gardens: Keep it in at all times. Mine is a house cat and is happier that way. She is scared of 'outside'. She has not one, but two, litter boxes. To satisfy her instinct to 'hunt' she has a large collection of toys, which still keep her occupied, at the age of 5.5 years. bonniepuss

9:21am Thu 16 Jan 14

Honeybee123 says...

bonniepuss wrote:
To avoid a cat making mess in gardens:

Keep it in at all times. Mine is a house cat and is happier that way. She is scared of 'outside'. She has not one, but two, litter boxes. To satisfy her instinct to 'hunt' she has a large collection of toys, which still keep her occupied, at the age of 5.5 years.
That may work for your cat but it won't work for the majority and in fact I personally believe it's cruel. Cats love being outside and in fact having worked for the RSPCA for a few years I've have seen some bad psychological issues in cats which were kept confined.
[quote][p][bold]bonniepuss[/bold] wrote: To avoid a cat making mess in gardens: Keep it in at all times. Mine is a house cat and is happier that way. She is scared of 'outside'. She has not one, but two, litter boxes. To satisfy her instinct to 'hunt' she has a large collection of toys, which still keep her occupied, at the age of 5.5 years.[/p][/quote]That may work for your cat but it won't work for the majority and in fact I personally believe it's cruel. Cats love being outside and in fact having worked for the RSPCA for a few years I've have seen some bad psychological issues in cats which were kept confined. Honeybee123

9:21am Thu 16 Jan 14

Folkestone Saint says...

As a fisherman if I see tackle left behind (not always on purpose) it is expected of me by others to pick it up, why is it not the same for dog owners and what they leave behind?
As a fisherman if I see tackle left behind (not always on purpose) it is expected of me by others to pick it up, why is it not the same for dog owners and what they leave behind? Folkestone Saint

1:12pm Thu 16 Jan 14

robertspet8 says...

Honeybee123 wrote:
bonniepuss wrote:
To avoid a cat making mess in gardens:

Keep it in at all times. Mine is a house cat and is happier that way. She is scared of 'outside'. She has not one, but two, litter boxes. To satisfy her instinct to 'hunt' she has a large collection of toys, which still keep her occupied, at the age of 5.5 years.
That may work for your cat but it won't work for the majority and in fact I personally believe it's cruel. Cats love being outside and in fact having worked for the RSPCA for a few years I've have seen some bad psychological issues in cats which were kept confined.
First I apologise for referring to your bum in a previous comment - incredibly rude of me. I just get exasperated by people who, despite all the evidence to the contrary, will not consider, let alone accept or try, another way of doing things despite the damage their inflexibility is inflicting on their local neighbourhoods. The article was about a few irresponsible dog owners but cat owners, like yourself, are allowing far more harm in my opinion: dogs leave poo; cats leave poo, kill wildlife and run out in front of vehicles at risk to themselves and road users.
If you will forgive the pun, I think you have let the cat out of the bag regarding your attitudes and opinions - you worked for the RSPCA but now consider their advice regarding the training of cats as ludicrous. You only accept advice and opinion which supports your entrenched views and in this instance there is very little out there for you to quote in your own defence. You are entitled to your opinion but unless you are prepared to consider other points of view it soon seems to be prejudice rather than reason.
[quote][p][bold]Honeybee123[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bonniepuss[/bold] wrote: To avoid a cat making mess in gardens: Keep it in at all times. Mine is a house cat and is happier that way. She is scared of 'outside'. She has not one, but two, litter boxes. To satisfy her instinct to 'hunt' she has a large collection of toys, which still keep her occupied, at the age of 5.5 years.[/p][/quote]That may work for your cat but it won't work for the majority and in fact I personally believe it's cruel. Cats love being outside and in fact having worked for the RSPCA for a few years I've have seen some bad psychological issues in cats which were kept confined.[/p][/quote]First I apologise for referring to your bum in a previous comment - incredibly rude of me. I just get exasperated by people who, despite all the evidence to the contrary, will not consider, let alone accept or try, another way of doing things despite the damage their inflexibility is inflicting on their local neighbourhoods. The article was about a few irresponsible dog owners but cat owners, like yourself, are allowing far more harm in my opinion: dogs leave poo; cats leave poo, kill wildlife and run out in front of vehicles at risk to themselves and road users. If you will forgive the pun, I think you have let the cat out of the bag regarding your attitudes and opinions - you worked for the RSPCA but now consider their advice regarding the training of cats as ludicrous. You only accept advice and opinion which supports your entrenched views and in this instance there is very little out there for you to quote in your own defence. You are entitled to your opinion but unless you are prepared to consider other points of view it soon seems to be prejudice rather than reason. robertspet8

3:30pm Thu 16 Jan 14

bonniepuss says...

There is definitely nothing wrong with my cat's psyche, I can assure you. It is because we live near 3 extremely busy roads and the fact that due to her breed she is more nervous than a 'moggie' that we do not let her out. Our previous two cats also were largely house cats, they would only go out if we were in the garden, stayed nearby, and returned to the house to use their litter boxes. We've been pet owners for over 23 years and our vet says he wishes more owners were as responsible as we are.
There is definitely nothing wrong with my cat's psyche, I can assure you. It is because we live near 3 extremely busy roads and the fact that due to her breed she is more nervous than a 'moggie' that we do not let her out. Our previous two cats also were largely house cats, they would only go out if we were in the garden, stayed nearby, and returned to the house to use their litter boxes. We've been pet owners for over 23 years and our vet says he wishes more owners were as responsible as we are. bonniepuss

3:51pm Thu 16 Jan 14

popleyrebel2 says...

A few years ago I was in to breeding Bengalese finches, having built my own aviary and with help from others (in the bird world) it was stocked with good breeding birds and I had great results.
Sadly however after a few years we had new neighbours, young couple two kids and 5 cats.
Also in my garden I have a fish pond and yes I know what you’re thinking, 5 cats birds and fish don’t mix and trust me, what a nightmare.
As the cats were not allowed in the house can you imagine getting up in the morning and finding dead birds on the aviary floor, the cats would pin themselves against the wire the birds would panic (in the dark) and the birds broke their necks, also they shredded the liner in the pond.

Did I confront the owners, sure thing, did it do any good, no. What made it worse, she, the (half wit) who owned the cats feed them in her garden and as a consequence all the cats the in the area would come calling and stay for the night.
I gave up the birds and relined the pond, the half wit’s moved on.

It’s irresponsible people not the animal that needs training
A few years ago I was in to breeding Bengalese finches, having built my own aviary and with help from others (in the bird world) it was stocked with good breeding birds and I had great results. Sadly however after a few years we had new neighbours, young couple two kids and 5 cats. Also in my garden I have a fish pond and yes I know what you’re thinking, 5 cats birds and fish don’t mix and trust me, what a nightmare. As the cats were not allowed in the house can you imagine getting up in the morning and finding dead birds on the aviary floor, the cats would pin themselves against the wire the birds would panic (in the dark) and the birds broke their necks, also they shredded the liner in the pond. Did I confront the owners, sure thing, did it do any good, no. What made it worse, she, the (half wit) who owned the cats feed them in her garden and as a consequence all the cats the in the area would come calling and stay for the night. I gave up the birds and relined the pond, the half wit’s moved on. It’s irresponsible people not the animal that needs training popleyrebel2

3:54pm Thu 16 Jan 14

jbee37 says...

bonniepuss wrote:
To avoid a cat making mess in gardens:

Keep it in at all times. Mine is a house cat and is happier that way. She is scared of 'outside'. She has not one, but two, litter boxes. To satisfy her instinct to 'hunt' she has a large collection of toys, which still keep her occupied, at the age of 5.5 years.
That may work for your cat but it won't work for the majority and in fact I personally believe it's cruel. Cats love being outside and in fact having worked for the RSPCA for a few years I've have seen some bad psychological issues in cats which were kept confined.

I can't believe what i'm reading. You're more concerned about a cats psychological state of mind than the fact its been spending all week, or more, crapping in a neighbours garden?
bonniepuss wrote: To avoid a cat making mess in gardens: Keep it in at all times. Mine is a house cat and is happier that way. She is scared of 'outside'. She has not one, but two, litter boxes. To satisfy her instinct to 'hunt' she has a large collection of toys, which still keep her occupied, at the age of 5.5 years. That may work for your cat but it won't work for the majority and in fact I personally believe it's cruel. Cats love being outside and in fact having worked for the RSPCA for a few years I've have seen some bad psychological issues in cats which were kept confined. I can't believe what i'm reading. You're more concerned about a cats psychological state of mind than the fact its been spending all week, or more, crapping in a neighbours garden? jbee37

4:08pm Thu 16 Jan 14

Honeybee123 says...

jbee37 wrote:
bonniepuss wrote:
To avoid a cat making mess in gardens:

Keep it in at all times. Mine is a house cat and is happier that way. She is scared of 'outside'. She has not one, but two, litter boxes. To satisfy her instinct to 'hunt' she has a large collection of toys, which still keep her occupied, at the age of 5.5 years.
That may work for your cat but it won't work for the majority and in fact I personally believe it's cruel. Cats love being outside and in fact having worked for the RSPCA for a few years I've have seen some bad psychological issues in cats which were kept confined.

I can't believe what i'm reading. You're more concerned about a cats psychological state of mind than the fact its been spending all week, or more, crapping in a neighbours garden?
I'm an animal lover so of course my concern is for the animals welfare. Some cats, particularly breeds can cope being confined, others can't. I've seen first hand the effect of an animal being confined when it didn't want to be and it's not good. As a cat owner I do not go out of my way to encourage my cats to defecate in other peoples gardens but it's a fact of life, cats go outside. independently of their owners and so yes they can end up going in other peoples garden. If I saw my cat doing it I'd clean it up. If it makes me a terrible person because I won't train my cat to walk on a lead (something very alien to a cat as they are not pack animals) then I hold my hands up. There are no doubt some very irresponsible pet owners out there which unfortunately the finch breeder above encountered but they are not just cat owners. This has obviously turned into a cat vs dog owner debate somehow and a bit if a slanging match where I've been called lazy amongst other things. It's a shame people don't know how to have differing opinions without getting personal. Oh and robertspet8, yes I did work for the RSPCA, as a volunteer for many years and no I didn't agree with all their policies but do you agree with everything your employer says or does?
[quote][p][bold]jbee37[/bold] wrote: bonniepuss wrote: To avoid a cat making mess in gardens: Keep it in at all times. Mine is a house cat and is happier that way. She is scared of 'outside'. She has not one, but two, litter boxes. To satisfy her instinct to 'hunt' she has a large collection of toys, which still keep her occupied, at the age of 5.5 years. That may work for your cat but it won't work for the majority and in fact I personally believe it's cruel. Cats love being outside and in fact having worked for the RSPCA for a few years I've have seen some bad psychological issues in cats which were kept confined. I can't believe what i'm reading. You're more concerned about a cats psychological state of mind than the fact its been spending all week, or more, crapping in a neighbours garden?[/p][/quote]I'm an animal lover so of course my concern is for the animals welfare. Some cats, particularly breeds can cope being confined, others can't. I've seen first hand the effect of an animal being confined when it didn't want to be and it's not good. As a cat owner I do not go out of my way to encourage my cats to defecate in other peoples gardens but it's a fact of life, cats go outside. independently of their owners and so yes they can end up going in other peoples garden. If I saw my cat doing it I'd clean it up. If it makes me a terrible person because I won't train my cat to walk on a lead (something very alien to a cat as they are not pack animals) then I hold my hands up. There are no doubt some very irresponsible pet owners out there which unfortunately the finch breeder above encountered but they are not just cat owners. This has obviously turned into a cat vs dog owner debate somehow and a bit if a slanging match where I've been called lazy amongst other things. It's a shame people don't know how to have differing opinions without getting personal. Oh and robertspet8, yes I did work for the RSPCA, as a volunteer for many years and no I didn't agree with all their policies but do you agree with everything your employer says or does? Honeybee123

4:54pm Thu 16 Jan 14

robertspet8 says...

Honeybee123 says... 'It's a shame people don't know how to have differing opinions without getting personal. Oh and robertspet8, yes I did work for the RSPCA, as a volunteer for many years and no I didn't agree with all their policies but do you agree with everything your employer says or does?'
The reason I got personal is because you allow your opinions to rule your actions. These actions have an adverse impact on the lives of other people and local wildlife. If you were just expressing opinions then I could have a reasoned, rational argument with you but you are letting your cats decimate the local wildlife and defecate where they like outside of your house.
Fortunately I agree with everything that my company says and does because all our words and actions are guided by ethical policies. You have decided to disagree with the RSPCA over one particular piece of research which does not support your own prejudices. The RSPCA published their advice as a result of research into cat and cat owner behaviour - it is not something pulled out of thin air by them.
Finally, will you be able to shrug and say, 'its a fact of life,' if one of your cats is injured or killed by a car as a result of you not keeping it under control?
Honeybee123 says... 'It's a shame people don't know how to have differing opinions without getting personal. Oh and robertspet8, yes I did work for the RSPCA, as a volunteer for many years and no I didn't agree with all their policies but do you agree with everything your employer says or does?' The reason I got personal is because you allow your opinions to rule your actions. These actions have an adverse impact on the lives of other people and local wildlife. If you were just expressing opinions then I could have a reasoned, rational argument with you but you are letting your cats decimate the local wildlife and defecate where they like outside of your house. Fortunately I agree with everything that my company says and does because all our words and actions are guided by ethical policies. You have decided to disagree with the RSPCA over one particular piece of research which does not support your own prejudices. The RSPCA published their advice as a result of research into cat and cat owner behaviour - it is not something pulled out of thin air by them. Finally, will you be able to shrug and say, 'its a fact of life,' if one of your cats is injured or killed by a car as a result of you not keeping it under control? robertspet8

5:03pm Thu 16 Jan 14

Honeybee123 says...

robertspet8 wrote:
Honeybee123 says... 'It's a shame people don't know how to have differing opinions without getting personal. Oh and robertspet8, yes I did work for the RSPCA, as a volunteer for many years and no I didn't agree with all their policies but do you agree with everything your employer says or does?'
The reason I got personal is because you allow your opinions to rule your actions. These actions have an adverse impact on the lives of other people and local wildlife. If you were just expressing opinions then I could have a reasoned, rational argument with you but you are letting your cats decimate the local wildlife and defecate where they like outside of your house.
Fortunately I agree with everything that my company says and does because all our words and actions are guided by ethical policies. You have decided to disagree with the RSPCA over one particular piece of research which does not support your own prejudices. The RSPCA published their advice as a result of research into cat and cat owner behaviour - it is not something pulled out of thin air by them.
Finally, will you be able to shrug and say, 'its a fact of life,' if one of your cats is injured or killed by a car as a result of you not keeping it under control?
I'd actually rather they had happy and healthy lives doing what they want and I have lost two in that way but I still wouldn't those tragic circumstances influence my methods of pet ownership. Again I minimise the risk by keeping them in at night but I won't take away their freedom due to previous incidents. I'm happy to let my cats roam outside, of their own free will and if I see them poop I'll scoop it up the same as I would if I owned a dog which by the way I adore as much as cats but my lifestyle doesn't allow me to own a dog as I am out of the house for too many hours a day.
[quote][p][bold]robertspet8[/bold] wrote: Honeybee123 says... 'It's a shame people don't know how to have differing opinions without getting personal. Oh and robertspet8, yes I did work for the RSPCA, as a volunteer for many years and no I didn't agree with all their policies but do you agree with everything your employer says or does?' The reason I got personal is because you allow your opinions to rule your actions. These actions have an adverse impact on the lives of other people and local wildlife. If you were just expressing opinions then I could have a reasoned, rational argument with you but you are letting your cats decimate the local wildlife and defecate where they like outside of your house. Fortunately I agree with everything that my company says and does because all our words and actions are guided by ethical policies. You have decided to disagree with the RSPCA over one particular piece of research which does not support your own prejudices. The RSPCA published their advice as a result of research into cat and cat owner behaviour - it is not something pulled out of thin air by them. Finally, will you be able to shrug and say, 'its a fact of life,' if one of your cats is injured or killed by a car as a result of you not keeping it under control?[/p][/quote]I'd actually rather they had happy and healthy lives doing what they want and I have lost two in that way but I still wouldn't those tragic circumstances influence my methods of pet ownership. Again I minimise the risk by keeping them in at night but I won't take away their freedom due to previous incidents. I'm happy to let my cats roam outside, of their own free will and if I see them poop I'll scoop it up the same as I would if I owned a dog which by the way I adore as much as cats but my lifestyle doesn't allow me to own a dog as I am out of the house for too many hours a day. Honeybee123

8:20pm Thu 16 Jan 14

Best_Name_Ever says...

Oh dear. I own a cat and therefore must be a lazy cat owner. I don't know how I am going to cope with Robertspet8 disgust at me.





Oh wait. I don't give a toss.
Oh dear. I own a cat and therefore must be a lazy cat owner. I don't know how I am going to cope with Robertspet8 disgust at me. Oh wait. I don't give a toss. Best_Name_Ever

8:55pm Thu 16 Jan 14

bonniepuss says...

jbee37 wrote:
bonniepuss wrote:
To avoid a cat making mess in gardens:

Keep it in at all times. Mine is a house cat and is happier that way. She is scared of 'outside'. She has not one, but two, litter boxes. To satisfy her instinct to 'hunt' she has a large collection of toys, which still keep her occupied, at the age of 5.5 years.
That may work for your cat but it won't work for the majority and in fact I personally believe it's cruel. Cats love being outside and in fact having worked for the RSPCA for a few years I've have seen some bad psychological issues in cats which were kept confined.

I can't believe what i'm reading. You're more concerned about a cats psychological state of mind than the fact its been spending all week, or more, crapping in a neighbours garden?
Only this bit is what I wrote:

The first paragraph, starting "to avoid...."

The sentence that starts "that may work..." and the last paragraph were written as replies to my post.
[quote][p][bold]jbee37[/bold] wrote: bonniepuss wrote: To avoid a cat making mess in gardens: Keep it in at all times. Mine is a house cat and is happier that way. She is scared of 'outside'. She has not one, but two, litter boxes. To satisfy her instinct to 'hunt' she has a large collection of toys, which still keep her occupied, at the age of 5.5 years. That may work for your cat but it won't work for the majority and in fact I personally believe it's cruel. Cats love being outside and in fact having worked for the RSPCA for a few years I've have seen some bad psychological issues in cats which were kept confined. I can't believe what i'm reading. You're more concerned about a cats psychological state of mind than the fact its been spending all week, or more, crapping in a neighbours garden?[/p][/quote]Only this bit is what I wrote: The first paragraph, starting "to avoid...." The sentence that starts "that may work..." and the last paragraph were written as replies to my post. bonniepuss

8:54am Fri 17 Jan 14

Folkestone Saint says...

Best_Name_Ever wrote:
Oh dear. I own a cat and therefore must be a lazy cat owner. I don't know how I am going to cope with Robertspet8 disgust at me.





Oh wait. I don't give a toss.
Thats why you have a cat innit
[quote][p][bold]Best_Name_Ever[/bold] wrote: Oh dear. I own a cat and therefore must be a lazy cat owner. I don't know how I am going to cope with Robertspet8 disgust at me. Oh wait. I don't give a toss.[/p][/quote]Thats why you have a cat innit Folkestone Saint

3:26pm Fri 17 Jan 14

robertspet8 says...

Best_Name_Ever wrote:
Oh dear. I own a cat and therefore must be a lazy cat owner. I don't know how I am going to cope with Robertspet8 disgust at me.





Oh wait. I don't give a toss.
I think I said I was exasperated with some, and accused most, cat owners of being lazy but I don't remember expressing disgust with anyone.
And I could never be disgusted with you even if you are a cat owner, lazy or not.
[quote][p][bold]Best_Name_Ever[/bold] wrote: Oh dear. I own a cat and therefore must be a lazy cat owner. I don't know how I am going to cope with Robertspet8 disgust at me. Oh wait. I don't give a toss.[/p][/quote]I think I said I was exasperated with some, and accused most, cat owners of being lazy but I don't remember expressing disgust with anyone. And I could never be disgusted with you even if you are a cat owner, lazy or not. robertspet8

4:56pm Fri 17 Jan 14

Sam_Walker123456 says...

Honeybee says that she is an animal lover that her concern is for the animals welfare. If that was really true she would not keep cats which harm other birds and animals. I suspect the cats are kept mostly for her benefit.
Honeybee says that she is an animal lover that her concern is for the animals welfare. If that was really true she would not keep cats which harm other birds and animals. I suspect the cats are kept mostly for her benefit. Sam_Walker123456

5:16pm Fri 17 Jan 14

Honeybee123 says...

Sam_Walker123456 wrote:
Honeybee says that she is an animal lover that her concern is for the animals welfare. If that was really true she would not keep cats which harm other birds and animals. I suspect the cats are kept mostly for her benefit.
That's the funniest statement yet, thanks for the laugh. Please explain why anyone keeps pets? Yes, it's for their own benefit well done. Cats hunt, it's instinct. In the 20 odd years I've owned cats they've killed 2 birds. In fact they're more interested in bringing me the elastic bands discarded by the postie...evil little creatures that they are.
[quote][p][bold]Sam_Walker123456[/bold] wrote: Honeybee says that she is an animal lover that her concern is for the animals welfare. If that was really true she would not keep cats which harm other birds and animals. I suspect the cats are kept mostly for her benefit.[/p][/quote]That's the funniest statement yet, thanks for the laugh. Please explain why anyone keeps pets? Yes, it's for their own benefit well done. Cats hunt, it's instinct. In the 20 odd years I've owned cats they've killed 2 birds. In fact they're more interested in bringing me the elastic bands discarded by the postie...evil little creatures that they are. Honeybee123

2:45pm Mon 20 Jan 14

Sam_Walker123456 says...

Honeybee123 says... 'Cats hunt, it's instinct. In the 20 odd years I've owned cats they've killed 2 birds.' Two that you know of. Do you believe they have brought all their kills of birds and other wildlife home?
Honeybee123 says... 'Cats hunt, it's instinct. In the 20 odd years I've owned cats they've killed 2 birds.' Two that you know of. Do you believe they have brought all their kills of birds and other wildlife home? Sam_Walker123456

2:58pm Mon 20 Jan 14

Honeybee123 says...

Sam_Walker123456 wrote:
Honeybee123 says... 'Cats hunt, it's instinct. In the 20 odd years I've owned cats they've killed 2 birds.' Two that you know of. Do you believe they have brought all their kills of birds and other wildlife home?
I do believe that yes. Domestic cats don't tend to kill for food. I can't be 100% of course but I know my cats. I've had 9 animals in 20 years and 7 years experience of volunteering in animal welfare so I know a bit about them.
[quote][p][bold]Sam_Walker123456[/bold] wrote: Honeybee123 says... 'Cats hunt, it's instinct. In the 20 odd years I've owned cats they've killed 2 birds.' Two that you know of. Do you believe they have brought all their kills of birds and other wildlife home?[/p][/quote]I do believe that yes. Domestic cats don't tend to kill for food. I can't be 100% of course but I know my cats. I've had 9 animals in 20 years and 7 years experience of volunteering in animal welfare so I know a bit about them. Honeybee123

2:49pm Tue 21 Jan 14

Sam_Walker123456 says...

Honeybee123 wrote:
Sam_Walker123456 wrote:
Honeybee123 says... 'Cats hunt, it's instinct. In the 20 odd years I've owned cats they've killed 2 birds.' Two that you know of. Do you believe they have brought all their kills of birds and other wildlife home?
I do believe that yes. Domestic cats don't tend to kill for food. I can't be 100% of course but I know my cats. I've had 9 animals in 20 years and 7 years experience of volunteering in animal welfare so I know a bit about them.
http://www.plosone.o
rg/article/info%3Ado
i%2F10.1371%2Fjourna
l.pone.0049369
The fact is that very little research has been done into cat predation - above link is to research carried out at Reading University to quantify the problem. The findings make interesting reading.
[quote][p][bold]Honeybee123[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sam_Walker123456[/bold] wrote: Honeybee123 says... 'Cats hunt, it's instinct. In the 20 odd years I've owned cats they've killed 2 birds.' Two that you know of. Do you believe they have brought all their kills of birds and other wildlife home?[/p][/quote]I do believe that yes. Domestic cats don't tend to kill for food. I can't be 100% of course but I know my cats. I've had 9 animals in 20 years and 7 years experience of volunteering in animal welfare so I know a bit about them.[/p][/quote]http://www.plosone.o rg/article/info%3Ado i%2F10.1371%2Fjourna l.pone.0049369 The fact is that very little research has been done into cat predation - above link is to research carried out at Reading University to quantify the problem. The findings make interesting reading. Sam_Walker123456

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