COMMENT: Premier League cash cow is to blame for mass exodus at Saints this summer

COMMENT: Super Cal is fantastic - so a sale would be atrocious!

CALUM CHAMBERS

LES REED

First published in Sport Basingstoke Gazette: Photograph of the Author by , Sports Editor

YOU can understand the outpouring of anger. Of course you can.

Saints fans had just seen their club claim an eighth placed finish in the Premier League, equalling their best ever campaign since the 1992 rebranding.

Previously, the club had finished eighth in 2002/03. The following summer they lost their home-grown England international left back to Chelsea for £7m (Wayne Bridge).

This year, Saints have again lost their home-grown England international left back (Luke Shaw) for mega millions.

Sadly, that is not all they’ve lost.

Shaw has gone. So has the creative talents of skipper Adam Lallana. So has the talismanic striker Rickie Lambert.

As of 10pm last night, so has centre half Dejan Lovren. That was the time his move to Anfield, after only one season at St Mary’s, was officially announced.

That’s four out, with more to come.

Calum Chambers, another home produced full back, could soon be on his way for more money than Newcastle once paid for Alan Shearer to make the ex-Saint the most expensive player in British football history.

No wonder, then, that the story the Daily Echo broke online on Friday night that Arsenal were about to swoop for Chambers is the straw that broke the camel’s back.

Almost 800 comments were posted online about that story over the weekend, the highest amount of postings on a single Daily Echo story in the newspaper’s online history.

For comparison purposes, there were 216 on the story back in January concerning chairman Nicola Cortese’s resignation, and ‘only’ 136 on the story in May that Mauricio Pochettino had resigned.

The vast majority of supporters who commented were outraged.

Outraged that a board, who had previously told them that players would be held to their contracts, would consider selling another academy graduate.

Outraged that with only two new signings so far and the 2014/15 season fast approaching, Ronald Koeman faces a monumental task to produce a successful team from the mess he has inherited.

Owner Katharina Liebherr’s intentions were questioned by many. Is she about to sell the club, many asked?

Technical director Les Reed will be well advised not to log on and read the comments, as he received a shedful of abuse regarding his comments about players being held to contracts etc.

Morgan Schneiderlin could also be leaving soon, and his departure would be a further slap in the face for Saints fans as their record-breaking side is picked apart by the big-spending Premier League vultures from Manchester, Merseyside and North London.

What kind of carcass will be left on the side of Brittania Road when this unprecendented summer of transfer madness is finally over?

That is a good question to ask at this moment in time.

Among all the comments of fans demanding their season ticket monies be refunded and possible matchday boycotts, there were some supporters confessing to the reality of Saints’ unfortunate situation.

“Let’s get real,” wrote Tony from Liberia (who now lives in Rwanda).

“The reason people are buying our players is because, by some weird and probably never to be repeated freak of nature, we happen to have a load of players at one time who are good enough to play for the top four, and the top four have come and got them.

“There's a pecking order in the game, and it's dictated by money - not how much you've got, but how much you can pay the players.

“We CANNOT compete with the top six on wages, and the way the game is now organised we probably never will.”

Tony’s comments were a sane and sensible offering to an times furious debate surrounding Saints and their ambitions, or perceived lack of them.

“There is no way that anyone at the club could stop what's happening from happening, and it’s pointless to stamp our feet and demand that they do,” he added. “All clubs are selling clubs when the player wants to leave, and the buying club has enough money.

“You don’t believe me? Look at Athletico Madrid.”

Fair point. They won La Liga and were a minute away from winning the Champions League last season, but in the last few weeks two of their top players have left for Chelsea – who didn’t win anything in 2013/14 – and Diego Costa and Filipe Luis won’t have taken a pay cut to move to west London.

Saints’ problem is obvious.

On the face of it, £16m for a young full back who is not a regular in the first team is a great bit of business.

Selling a teenage left back for almost £30m is a great bit of business.

Getting over £4m for a 32-year-old striker with his best days probably behind him is a great bit of business.

Buying a centre half or £8.5m one summer and selling him for £20m 12 months later is, yes you’ve guess it, a great bit of business.

Individually, the club have done well to sell for those huge sums.

Taken together, though, it’s a far different story.

The overall picture being painted at St Mary’s now screams ‘we’re not a selling club, but if you offer enough then we will probably sell’.

What must potential new signings be thinking when they see the club’s board selling off the crown jewels left (back), right (back) and centre (half)?

What must senior professionals like Schneiderlin, Jack Cork and Jose Fonte be thinking?

It has got to the stage now where it would be amazing if Schneiderlin actually staued at St Mary’s.

He has never publicly said he wants to leave – unlike the brainless Lovren – but Saints need to do something quickly to make him stay.

Like sign a few more international standard players.

And sign them quickly.

As for Cork and Fonte, they are out of contract next summer. New deals will surely be offered, but you could easily understand it if the pair didn’t rush to sign anything put in front of them.

Would you, if you were in their shoes?

Tony from Rwanda is spot on when he visited the Echo website over the weekend to write: “There’s no big conspiracy, no hidden agenda - we are just a victim of our own success.

“This is football, and we're stuck with it. Unless we find a way to change the Premier league, which we could do if we all stopped buying the product, going to games, getting Sky subscriptions, which isn't going to happen.”

I’ve said it before, and I will say it again now.

The Premier League is to blame for the mass exodus at Saints this summer.

Rupert Murdoch’s cash cow is milking Saints dry in terms of their stellar names.

The elite clubs in England have enough money to stockpile players, creating massive squads in the process and being rich enough to pay them all obscene salaries.

They can spend millions on their own academies, but if they aren’t happy with their own home-grown players they can just phone up Saints and buy theirs.

Arsenal signed Theo Walcott from Saints aged 16, they signed Alex Chamberlain from Saints aged 17, they could now sign Calum Chambers aged 19.

They will probably be linked with Matt Targett soon.

It’s not fair on Saints that Arsenal can do this.

But Arsenal will say it’s not fair that they can continually lose their top players to Manchester City – Bacary Sagna this summer, following the likes of Samir Nasri, Emmanuel Adebayor, Gael Clichy and Kolo Toure.

That is the way football’s financial heirarchy works.

A few weeks ago, in these very pages, I wrote that Saints fans shouldn’t be worried that their very best players want to join some of the biggest names in world football, let alone English football.

I still stand by that.

The day that Jack Cork and Jose Fonte turn down new deals to sign for QPR or Cardiff City ...

... that is the day Saints supporters should really start to get concerned.

Comments (118)

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8:48am Mon 28 Jul 14

Ozmosis says...

"Premier League cash cow is to blame for mass exodus at Saints this summer". Partially. The fact that the players were concerned and unsettled with the lack of vision, direction and communication is the primary cause of the departures. If the board were as quiet with the players as they have been with the fans then who can blame them?
"Premier League cash cow is to blame for mass exodus at Saints this summer". Partially. The fact that the players were concerned and unsettled with the lack of vision, direction and communication is the primary cause of the departures. If the board were as quiet with the players as they have been with the fans then who can blame them? Ozmosis
  • Score: -32

8:55am Mon 28 Jul 14

Crossley Place Saint says...

The Telegraph is reporting this morning that the Chambers move to Arsenal is a done deal, Calum has even had his medical. I am beginning to wonder if Ralph actually thinks that the Premier League has a draft system like the American ice hockey league... where the club with the weakest team at the start of the season gets first pick to sign newly available players?
The Telegraph is reporting this morning that the Chambers move to Arsenal is a done deal, Calum has even had his medical. I am beginning to wonder if Ralph actually thinks that the Premier League has a draft system like the American ice hockey league... where the club with the weakest team at the start of the season gets first pick to sign newly available players? Crossley Place Saint
  • Score: -16

8:59am Mon 28 Jul 14

north wales saint 2 says...

I will repeat a similar line I said previously.Why were they all so happy signing long term contracts recently and then following the departure of Cortese then M P desert like rats leaving a sinking ship?. I still however have faith in the Koeman brothers and hope it is justified.
I will repeat a similar line I said previously.Why were they all so happy signing long term contracts recently and then following the departure of Cortese then M P desert like rats leaving a sinking ship?. I still however have faith in the Koeman brothers and hope it is justified. north wales saint 2
  • Score: 38

9:01am Mon 28 Jul 14

aldermoorboy says...

I believe we will have a good season with players who want to play for us. We have a great manager who will continue to develop the players.
I believe we will have a good season with players who want to play for us. We have a great manager who will continue to develop the players. aldermoorboy
  • Score: 40

9:02am Mon 28 Jul 14

SussexSaint55 says...

That is a good summary of where we are. The crunch is going to be how many good replacements we can get in so we can have a competitive squad to play in the Premier League. Expectations have been set over the last few years & no Saints fan wants to see us struggling each week. The new Manager will need time to assemble his squad & get them playing how he wants them - it takes time for new players to settle into the Premier League, thats why if anything its frustrating that the promised new players haven't yet arrived, lets hope they come sooner rather than later!
That is a good summary of where we are. The crunch is going to be how many good replacements we can get in so we can have a competitive squad to play in the Premier League. Expectations have been set over the last few years & no Saints fan wants to see us struggling each week. The new Manager will need time to assemble his squad & get them playing how he wants them - it takes time for new players to settle into the Premier League, thats why if anything its frustrating that the promised new players haven't yet arrived, lets hope they come sooner rather than later! SussexSaint55
  • Score: 7

9:04am Mon 28 Jul 14

BarnetSaint says...

Excellent article
Yes the premier league does stink and if a club like Saints has the audacity to try and break their cosy cartel then they will be mercilessly torn apart and pillaged.
Of course the disgraceful antics of some of our players does not help .
But honestly, that process is made simple when you have complete and utter buffoons at the helm like we have.
I would honestly fancy my chances with the ice hockey bloke and the charlton failure reed.
Do us a favour kat, please sell and move on, you've made your millions.
See ya.
Excellent article Yes the premier league does stink and if a club like Saints has the audacity to try and break their cosy cartel then they will be mercilessly torn apart and pillaged. Of course the disgraceful antics of some of our players does not help . But honestly, that process is made simple when you have complete and utter buffoons at the helm like we have. I would honestly fancy my chances with the ice hockey bloke and the charlton failure reed. Do us a favour kat, please sell and move on, you've made your millions. See ya. BarnetSaint
  • Score: -45

9:05am Mon 28 Jul 14

saintbobby says...

Simon, the Daily Echo gets some flak on here about some articles which certain fans moan about as not being of any interest.

But, surely, no one will offer anything but praise for the balanced report you have written.

Financial facts of today's football, and the PL in particular, determine that clubs outside the top 4 or 6 will be poached and worse than that the players get tapped up by agents. I will never be convinced that ours were not got at during the World Cup, or even earlier.

I would love to ask Gerrard what he was saying to Rickie and Adam from when they got into the England squad. Very suspicious, I am. Clutterbuck told Lallana he had changed! Wasn't he right?

However, whilst accepting the facts, what has really got most fans is what was said about not being a selling club and then doing just that.

The confidence, at least here's hoping, is that the manager knows what's going on and will get the urgent strengthening of the team soon, that is in the next few days.

The pre-season has gone well - we are unbeaten! Let's hope this continues when the real stuff starts!
Simon, the Daily Echo gets some flak on here about some articles which certain fans moan about as not being of any interest. But, surely, no one will offer anything but praise for the balanced report you have written. Financial facts of today's football, and the PL in particular, determine that clubs outside the top 4 or 6 will be poached and worse than that the players get tapped up by agents. I will never be convinced that ours were not got at during the World Cup, or even earlier. I would love to ask Gerrard what he was saying to Rickie and Adam from when they got into the England squad. Very suspicious, I am. Clutterbuck told Lallana he had changed! Wasn't he right? However, whilst accepting the facts, what has really got most fans is what was said about not being a selling club and then doing just that. The confidence, at least here's hoping, is that the manager knows what's going on and will get the urgent strengthening of the team soon, that is in the next few days. The pre-season has gone well - we are unbeaten! Let's hope this continues when the real stuff starts! saintbobby
  • Score: 14

9:07am Mon 28 Jul 14

HorndeanSaint says...

Good article Simon, well reasoned and logical. I remember saying 20 years ago when the premier league etc. were coming to the fore that this situation would eventually come to pass. The rich get richer and the rest of us dance to their tune.

And so it has been throughout history, the lord of the manor being a similar scenario whereby we find ourselves in the modern era with a massive amount of wealth in this country being owned by a relatively small number of people.

Whilst I agree that our board need to communicate more, they have to be careful to not alert others to what may be highly confidential negotiations.

We all sat back last season and enjoyed the benefits of extremely rich people spending huge sums of money on our behalf. Unfortunately it is now our turn to sit back and hope that those same extremely rich people provide us with the players and management team to enjoy similar success.

As supporters, we have no choice but to hope that this is the case as, whilst we would like to think that we have some kind of influence on the owners decisions, we don't, we just pay our season ticket money and hope for the best.

I am reserving any judgement until 10 games into the season, lets see where we are then.
Good article Simon, well reasoned and logical. I remember saying 20 years ago when the premier league etc. were coming to the fore that this situation would eventually come to pass. The rich get richer and the rest of us dance to their tune. And so it has been throughout history, the lord of the manor being a similar scenario whereby we find ourselves in the modern era with a massive amount of wealth in this country being owned by a relatively small number of people. Whilst I agree that our board need to communicate more, they have to be careful to not alert others to what may be highly confidential negotiations. We all sat back last season and enjoyed the benefits of extremely rich people spending huge sums of money on our behalf. Unfortunately it is now our turn to sit back and hope that those same extremely rich people provide us with the players and management team to enjoy similar success. As supporters, we have no choice but to hope that this is the case as, whilst we would like to think that we have some kind of influence on the owners decisions, we don't, we just pay our season ticket money and hope for the best. I am reserving any judgement until 10 games into the season, lets see where we are then. HorndeanSaint
  • Score: 12

9:09am Mon 28 Jul 14

White and red till dead says...

north wales saint 2 wrote:
I will repeat a similar line I said previously.Why were they all so happy signing long term contracts recently and then following the departure of Cortese then M P desert like rats leaving a sinking ship?. I still however have faith in the Koeman brothers and hope it is justified.
I too would like this question answered. Maybe the Echo could do some investigative journalism and try to find out for us exactly what went on with Cortese's departure and subsequent departure of the core of our team, (i.e. some facts) rather than "comment", "opinion" and "conjecture", per above article.
[quote][p][bold]north wales saint 2[/bold] wrote: I will repeat a similar line I said previously.Why were they all so happy signing long term contracts recently and then following the departure of Cortese then M P desert like rats leaving a sinking ship?. I still however have faith in the Koeman brothers and hope it is justified.[/p][/quote]I too would like this question answered. Maybe the Echo could do some investigative journalism and try to find out for us exactly what went on with Cortese's departure and subsequent departure of the core of our team, (i.e. some facts) rather than "comment", "opinion" and "conjecture", per above article. White and red till dead
  • Score: 59

9:11am Mon 28 Jul 14

warrens 76 says...

Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of..

He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be..

Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this….

I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.
Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of.. He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be.. Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this…. I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no. warrens 76
  • Score: 15

9:11am Mon 28 Jul 14

spratt says...

The question that puzzles me now (if all that this article says is true) is - why on earth did a man of Koemans stature take the managers job and throughout this nightmare remain so upbeat? Are there more twists yet to come? Keep watching.
The question that puzzles me now (if all that this article says is true) is - why on earth did a man of Koemans stature take the managers job and throughout this nightmare remain so upbeat? Are there more twists yet to come? Keep watching. spratt
  • Score: 38

9:14am Mon 28 Jul 14

u bunch of mugs says...

Do us all a favour Les Reed and fu@k off before you are forced to leave.
Do us all a favour Les Reed and fu@k off before you are forced to leave. u bunch of mugs
  • Score: -27

9:19am Mon 28 Jul 14

Jonny7oma says...

Is this worse than being relegated? At least during relegation we could writhe in our own agony with a far bit of privacy. I understand we are being plundered for Champs league fodder and that we can't match the top 4 clubs wages but it doesn't make it any better. And thats where someone at the club must be stepping in right now with words of hope but no one is. Come April 2015, we may go down in history as the richest club ever to be relegated. An accountants dream, a fans nightmare.
Is this worse than being relegated? At least during relegation we could writhe in our own agony with a far bit of privacy. I understand we are being plundered for Champs league fodder and that we can't match the top 4 clubs wages but it doesn't make it any better. And thats where someone at the club must be stepping in right now with words of hope but no one is. Come April 2015, we may go down in history as the richest club ever to be relegated. An accountants dream, a fans nightmare. Jonny7oma
  • Score: -13

9:20am Mon 28 Jul 14

Blue means Success says...

On the face of it you have received truly great sums for these players.
Even if you buy great players to replace them - how long before they gel as a team - especially the defence.

If the team start badly, lose confidence, and the fans turn on the team and you eventually get relegated, how does all the cash help you?

Is there an assumption in the club hierarchy that the youth team will continually churn out brilliant players - even though 3 academy coaches have left?
On the face of it you have received truly great sums for these players. Even if you buy great players to replace them - how long before they gel as a team - especially the defence. If the team start badly, lose confidence, and the fans turn on the team and you eventually get relegated, how does all the cash help you? Is there an assumption in the club hierarchy that the youth team will continually churn out brilliant players - even though 3 academy coaches have left? Blue means Success
  • Score: 5

9:21am Mon 28 Jul 14

BumperSaint says...

My wish list for this week......

Monday: Morgan returns to training, meets Ron and then publicly declares his commitment to the saints for ever after!

Tuesday: De Vrj and Vlaar announced as two new CB signings.

Wednesday: SFC announce new contracts for jay, jack and Jose!

Thurs: Forster announced as new keeper and then makes debut in friendly win against Brighton.

Friday: Danny Ings and Nathan Redmond announced as new English talent on 5 yr deals!

Someone pinch me please!
My wish list for this week...... Monday: Morgan returns to training, meets Ron and then publicly declares his commitment to the saints for ever after! Tuesday: De Vrj and Vlaar announced as two new CB signings. Wednesday: SFC announce new contracts for jay, jack and Jose! Thurs: Forster announced as new keeper and then makes debut in friendly win against Brighton. Friday: Danny Ings and Nathan Redmond announced as new English talent on 5 yr deals! Someone pinch me please! BumperSaint
  • Score: 36

9:21am Mon 28 Jul 14

Rooflas says...

spratt wrote:
The question that puzzles me now (if all that this article says is true) is - why on earth did a man of Koemans stature take the managers job and throughout this nightmare remain so upbeat? Are there more twists yet to come? Keep watching.
Exactly
[quote][p][bold]spratt[/bold] wrote: The question that puzzles me now (if all that this article says is true) is - why on earth did a man of Koemans stature take the managers job and throughout this nightmare remain so upbeat? Are there more twists yet to come? Keep watching.[/p][/quote]Exactly Rooflas
  • Score: 15

9:25am Mon 28 Jul 14

Alicesdad says...

Time Management courses teach you "how to eat an elephant".. you cut it up and and eat it one piece at a time. Its easier than eating it all at once.

So we sell our club.. one player at a time .. is anybody not following this?
Time Management courses teach you "how to eat an elephant".. you cut it up and and eat it one piece at a time. Its easier than eating it all at once. So we sell our club.. one player at a time .. is anybody not following this? Alicesdad
  • Score: -10

9:28am Mon 28 Jul 14

St Van Roetford says...

Southampton fans have spent the last five years in a glorious bubble in which the rules of football and economics didn’t seem to apply to us. It was constant growth and it was glorious but, more than that, fans of other clubs loved watching us because we did things as they’re supposed to be done: we developed our players and put them in the first team and encouraged them to play attractive, high-tempo football and they did. And more often than not they won. It was like dreamland and we thought it might last forever.

But this summer we’ve been rudely awoken from that dream. No matter how laudable our methods, we’ve been reminded of the world’s greatest and most inescapable obstacle: the gap between the rich and the not-so-rich. The rich have the power to rig the market to protect their little ‘club’ and make competition anything but free and fair. It’s not even capitalism – it’s corporatism.

So our reward for doing things the right way is to have half our team looted by the rich and the powerful and it feels like we’re back to square one. But we’re not. What we need to do is rebuild on the pitch while massively upping the scale of our commercial activities off it so that one day, when the next batch of players comes together like it did last season, we’ll be able to afford to keep them. The dream isn’t over, but if we want to make it real I think we’ll just have to accept it’ll take a lot longer to reach the top than we once thought.
Southampton fans have spent the last five years in a glorious bubble in which the rules of football and economics didn’t seem to apply to us. It was constant growth and it was glorious but, more than that, fans of other clubs loved watching us because we did things as they’re supposed to be done: we developed our players and put them in the first team and encouraged them to play attractive, high-tempo football and they did. And more often than not they won. It was like dreamland and we thought it might last forever. But this summer we’ve been rudely awoken from that dream. No matter how laudable our methods, we’ve been reminded of the world’s greatest and most inescapable obstacle: the gap between the rich and the not-so-rich. The rich have the power to rig the market to protect their little ‘club’ and make competition anything but free and fair. It’s not even capitalism – it’s corporatism. So our reward for doing things the right way is to have half our team looted by the rich and the powerful and it feels like we’re back to square one. But we’re not. What we need to do is rebuild on the pitch while massively upping the scale of our commercial activities off it so that one day, when the next batch of players comes together like it did last season, we’ll be able to afford to keep them. The dream isn’t over, but if we want to make it real I think we’ll just have to accept it’ll take a lot longer to reach the top than we once thought. St Van Roetford
  • Score: 45

9:30am Mon 28 Jul 14

saint christopher says...

Like many of us I have gone through a roller-coaster of different emotions over the past couple of months.

Firstly seeing one of the best Saints teams ever arise from the ashes of near oblivion in the space of 4 remarkable years, largely built upon the output of what had now been recognised as one of the best academy set ups in the world and a blue-print for English football, and realistic ambitions of now being able to break into the top 6 with just a little more investment.

But then seeing the wind of cold financial reality and individual human ambition and greed begin to blow around St. Mary’s - the manager and nearly all the players who Saint’s had turned into top PL performers over the previous season rushing for the exit at the first opportunity to maximise their earning potential, with Saint’s apparently unwilling or unable to stem the flow.

In the midst of this however we appoint what nearly everyone seems to agree is the best manager we could ever have hoped for, who will hopefully continue to build on the foundations laid by Pardew, Adkins and Potch (and not forgetting Cortese). Along with a new board with a stated desire to be more open with the fans, to be a selling club, and who still had the aim of making Saints a European-class team but based on sound principles of building from within, all suddenly looked more rosy and once again we had reasons to be cheerful.

But to the dismay of all fans the hemorrhaging has continued, to the extent that all that gave us so much pleasure last season and hope for the future has effectively been not only dismantled but given to strengthen those very teams which we had hoped to start competing with. Yes, huge sums of money have been received, but as we know football-wise a bird in the hand is definitely worth 2 in a far-away bush who may or may not be as good as the one you had.

It wouldn’t be so bad if the promises of better communication had been kept, if only some general assurances that everything was under control - the almost total absence of such things inevitably giving the impression that they were not. Similarly we’d have understood and accepted the situation more if Saints were continually being linked with similar quality players currently being snapped up by even the West Ham and Stoke’s of this world – but the almost total absence of these things has also inevitably given rise to the impression we are a club frozen in the headlights of ever mounting transfer bids and with no clear strategy for replacing these players, in spite of the much-vaunted scouting system and promises of all transfer funds being ploughed back into the team.

As many fans have pointed out, we are perhaps a victim of our own success, only receiving this unwanted attention because we have been so successful. It has also brought home the reality of the power wielded by the top 5 or 6 clubs in the PL, who can now protect and bolster their own interests through their ability to pay grossly excessive fees and wages – something that no amount of legislation can now stop, short of a wages cap which will never happen.

I think even the most optimistic of us, who are thankful for all that has happened over the past 4 years and who believe we’re in safe hands for the future, cannot help but now be rather pessimistic with regards to the coming season and beyond.

Unless a handful of quality players suddenly appear on our books in the next couple of weeks (which everything indicates is unlikely) we surely do not have quality or experience in the current squad to avoid a season-long battle against relegation, with survival once again being our only priority.

But worst of all, as we continue to develop and blood youngsters from the academy as we surely will, the experience of the past couple of months can surely give us little hope that we can now hold onto such players the moment they start coming onto the radar of those who cannot produce such players themselves. Every academy player will inevitably now be thinking that getting in the first team is a stepping stone to riches and stardom – but unfortunately not with Saints. That doesn’t mean we won’t continue to love this great club and enjoy its occasional success in beating one of the big spenders or having a good cup run, but if recent events have taught us anything it is surely that, like the majority of other PL teams, that is realistically all we can look forward to.

Bit pessimistic I know but it’s how many of us surely feel at the moment.
Like many of us I have gone through a roller-coaster of different emotions over the past couple of months. Firstly seeing one of the best Saints teams ever arise from the ashes of near oblivion in the space of 4 remarkable years, largely built upon the output of what had now been recognised as one of the best academy set ups in the world and a blue-print for English football, and realistic ambitions of now being able to break into the top 6 with just a little more investment. But then seeing the wind of cold financial reality and individual human ambition and greed begin to blow around St. Mary’s - the manager and nearly all the players who Saint’s had turned into top PL performers over the previous season rushing for the exit at the first opportunity to maximise their earning potential, with Saint’s apparently unwilling or unable to stem the flow. In the midst of this however we appoint what nearly everyone seems to agree is the best manager we could ever have hoped for, who will hopefully continue to build on the foundations laid by Pardew, Adkins and Potch (and not forgetting Cortese). Along with a new board with a stated desire to be more open with the fans, to be a selling club, and who still had the aim of making Saints a European-class team but based on sound principles of building from within, all suddenly looked more rosy and once again we had reasons to be cheerful. But to the dismay of all fans the hemorrhaging has continued, to the extent that all that gave us so much pleasure last season and hope for the future has effectively been not only dismantled but given to strengthen those very teams which we had hoped to start competing with. Yes, huge sums of money have been received, but as we know football-wise a bird in the hand is definitely worth 2 in a far-away bush who may or may not be as good as the one you had. It wouldn’t be so bad if the promises of better communication had been kept, if only some general assurances that everything was under control - the almost total absence of such things inevitably giving the impression that they were not. Similarly we’d have understood and accepted the situation more if Saints were continually being linked with similar quality players currently being snapped up by even the West Ham and Stoke’s of this world – but the almost total absence of these things has also inevitably given rise to the impression we are a club frozen in the headlights of ever mounting transfer bids and with no clear strategy for replacing these players, in spite of the much-vaunted scouting system and promises of all transfer funds being ploughed back into the team. As many fans have pointed out, we are perhaps a victim of our own success, only receiving this unwanted attention because we have been so successful. It has also brought home the reality of the power wielded by the top 5 or 6 clubs in the PL, who can now protect and bolster their own interests through their ability to pay grossly excessive fees and wages – something that no amount of legislation can now stop, short of a wages cap which will never happen. I think even the most optimistic of us, who are thankful for all that has happened over the past 4 years and who believe we’re in safe hands for the future, cannot help but now be rather pessimistic with regards to the coming season and beyond. Unless a handful of quality players suddenly appear on our books in the next couple of weeks (which everything indicates is unlikely) we surely do not have quality or experience in the current squad to avoid a season-long battle against relegation, with survival once again being our only priority. But worst of all, as we continue to develop and blood youngsters from the academy as we surely will, the experience of the past couple of months can surely give us little hope that we can now hold onto such players the moment they start coming onto the radar of those who cannot produce such players themselves. Every academy player will inevitably now be thinking that getting in the first team is a stepping stone to riches and stardom – but unfortunately not with Saints. That doesn’t mean we won’t continue to love this great club and enjoy its occasional success in beating one of the big spenders or having a good cup run, but if recent events have taught us anything it is surely that, like the majority of other PL teams, that is realistically all we can look forward to. Bit pessimistic I know but it’s how many of us surely feel at the moment. saint christopher
  • Score: 28

9:31am Mon 28 Jul 14

Clever Dick says...

BumperSaint wrote:
My wish list for this week......

Monday: Morgan returns to training, meets Ron and then publicly declares his commitment to the saints for ever after!

Tuesday: De Vrj and Vlaar announced as two new CB signings.

Wednesday: SFC announce new contracts for jay, jack and Jose!

Thurs: Forster announced as new keeper and then makes debut in friendly win against Brighton.

Friday: Danny Ings and Nathan Redmond announced as new English talent on 5 yr deals!

Someone pinch me please!
My wish list for this week is to actually see some action from Les Reed
[quote][p][bold]BumperSaint[/bold] wrote: My wish list for this week...... Monday: Morgan returns to training, meets Ron and then publicly declares his commitment to the saints for ever after! Tuesday: De Vrj and Vlaar announced as two new CB signings. Wednesday: SFC announce new contracts for jay, jack and Jose! Thurs: Forster announced as new keeper and then makes debut in friendly win against Brighton. Friday: Danny Ings and Nathan Redmond announced as new English talent on 5 yr deals! Someone pinch me please![/p][/quote]My wish list for this week is to actually see some action from Les Reed Clever Dick
  • Score: 13

9:32am Mon 28 Jul 14

saint christopher says...

Should read NOT be a selling club!!!!
Should read NOT be a selling club!!!! saint christopher
  • Score: 7

9:33am Mon 28 Jul 14

Bitterne Park Tim says...

The only thing that matters, is the state of the squad at the end of the transfer Window....... It is almost impossible to force transfers through, unless you are willing to completely over pay for players..... in the same way liverpool and Man U have done!

Keep your nerve, these are exciting times, we have money to spend..... and time to spend it....

Two promising signings so far, a great manager in place and links to a lot of great talent.

Relax and see what happens.... on the 1st of September you can hit the panic Button!
The only thing that matters, is the state of the squad at the end of the transfer Window....... It is almost impossible to force transfers through, unless you are willing to completely over pay for players..... in the same way liverpool and Man U have done! Keep your nerve, these are exciting times, we have money to spend..... and time to spend it.... Two promising signings so far, a great manager in place and links to a lot of great talent. Relax and see what happens.... on the 1st of September you can hit the panic Button! Bitterne Park Tim
  • Score: 7

9:35am Mon 28 Jul 14

SiamSaint says...

Have you done any proper journalism recently? Rehashing fans comments does not count. Have you, for instance, called the club for a statement? Or waited in the car park for Krueger to appear? That's journalism. This isn't.
Have you done any proper journalism recently? Rehashing fans comments does not count. Have you, for instance, called the club for a statement? Or waited in the car park for Krueger to appear? That's journalism. This isn't. SiamSaint
  • Score: 22

9:35am Mon 28 Jul 14

Chapperall says...

At last an article generally reflecting how many of us Saints fans feel. It would seem that the Chamber deal has become a done deal but why do they need to sell him. Why couldn't we have retained him at used him as a centre back?
As usual more questions than answers and the silence from the Saints board continues. All us Saints fans want to be told is the truth, and also to have some information on players we are looking to bring in. All we seem to get is bad news, it feels like we were relegated last season with all the players leaving.
At last an article generally reflecting how many of us Saints fans feel. It would seem that the Chamber deal has become a done deal but why do they need to sell him. Why couldn't we have retained him at used him as a centre back? As usual more questions than answers and the silence from the Saints board continues. All us Saints fans want to be told is the truth, and also to have some information on players we are looking to bring in. All we seem to get is bad news, it feels like we were relegated last season with all the players leaving. Chapperall
  • Score: 17

9:37am Mon 28 Jul 14

Jon haswollop says...

aldermoorboy wrote:
I believe we will have a good season with players who want to play for us. We have a great manager who will continue to develop the players.
And if they play well and succeed, they will be purchased next season, leaving us in the same situation as now. Football fans are being mugged by the rich and elite!
[quote][p][bold]aldermoorboy[/bold] wrote: I believe we will have a good season with players who want to play for us. We have a great manager who will continue to develop the players.[/p][/quote]And if they play well and succeed, they will be purchased next season, leaving us in the same situation as now. Football fans are being mugged by the rich and elite! Jon haswollop
  • Score: 12

9:43am Mon 28 Jul 14

Numpty Girl says...

It's all very well making pots of money on player-dealing, but if it were to cost Saints their Premiership status, would it really be so clever?
I feel sorry for our new manager having to deal with Les Reed's mess.
As a fan, I accept the odd sale, but not where it will impact the team's ability to progress. Fans need hope and need to see a possibility of their team achieving something. It's not fair on the fans to de-stabilise the team to such an extent that it is moving backwards before the season starts.
Even with a few replacements, it's still a huge gamble. Our Board has been gambling with the club's future. It was in control. It could have said, "No". to some of the sales. If we are relegated, then Les Reed and Ralph Krüger should resign. Perhaps they should already resign for lack of communication with the fans and for taking such high risks vis-avis our Prem status. Whilst other teams have consolidated and strengthened, Les Reed has destroyed and weakened.
It's all very well making pots of money on player-dealing, but if it were to cost Saints their Premiership status, would it really be so clever? I feel sorry for our new manager having to deal with Les Reed's mess. As a fan, I accept the odd sale, but not where it will impact the team's ability to progress. Fans need hope and need to see a possibility of their team achieving something. It's not fair on the fans to de-stabilise the team to such an extent that it is moving backwards before the season starts. Even with a few replacements, it's still a huge gamble. Our Board has been gambling with the club's future. It was in control. It could have said, "No". to some of the sales. If we are relegated, then Les Reed and Ralph Krüger should resign. Perhaps they should already resign for lack of communication with the fans and for taking such high risks vis-avis our Prem status. Whilst other teams have consolidated and strengthened, Les Reed has destroyed and weakened. Numpty Girl
  • Score: 12

9:43am Mon 28 Jul 14

BarnetSaint says...

Where is Kruger by the way?
Hiding in a cupboard.
It defies belief that the club actually increased the price of tickets whilst presiding over this sorry mess.
Yes I know we keep being told to wait until the transfer window is closed but the message from the club is what?
Where are they hiding?
We have to trust that RoKo can pull some gems out and quickly because they will still take time to gel.
Where is Kruger by the way? Hiding in a cupboard. It defies belief that the club actually increased the price of tickets whilst presiding over this sorry mess. Yes I know we keep being told to wait until the transfer window is closed but the message from the club is what? Where are they hiding? We have to trust that RoKo can pull some gems out and quickly because they will still take time to gel. BarnetSaint
  • Score: 5

9:44am Mon 28 Jul 14

Jon haswollop says...

aldermoorboy wrote:
I believe we will have a good season with players who want to play for us. We have a great manager who will continue to develop the players.
9:01am Mon 28 Jul 14
aldermoorboy says...

I believe we will have a good season with players who want to play for us. We have a great manager who will continue to develop the players.

My comment to this:
And if our players play well and succeed, they will be purchased next season, leaving us in the same situation as now. Football fans are being mugged by the rich and elite!
[quote][p][bold]aldermoorboy[/bold] wrote: I believe we will have a good season with players who want to play for us. We have a great manager who will continue to develop the players.[/p][/quote]9:01am Mon 28 Jul 14 aldermoorboy says... I believe we will have a good season with players who want to play for us. We have a great manager who will continue to develop the players. My comment to this: And if our players play well and succeed, they will be purchased next season, leaving us in the same situation as now. Football fans are being mugged by the rich and elite! Jon haswollop
  • Score: 5

9:45am Mon 28 Jul 14

Jon Forte says...

Should've kept Guly!
Should've kept Guly! Jon Forte
  • Score: 15

9:49am Mon 28 Jul 14

Positively4thStreet says...

Bitterne Park Tim wrote:
The only thing that matters, is the state of the squad at the end of the transfer Window....... It is almost impossible to force transfers through, unless you are willing to completely over pay for players..... in the same way liverpool and Man U have done!

Keep your nerve, these are exciting times, we have money to spend..... and time to spend it....

Two promising signings so far, a great manager in place and links to a lot of great talent.

Relax and see what happens.... on the 1st of September you can hit the panic Button!
Yes I agree,all the talk in the world won't gives us any answers now,(unless the board comes clean),all we can do is wait and see what team turns out at Anfield,and then assess how they perform.
Personally,I think we all might be pleasantly surprised.
[quote][p][bold]Bitterne Park Tim[/bold] wrote: The only thing that matters, is the state of the squad at the end of the transfer Window....... It is almost impossible to force transfers through, unless you are willing to completely over pay for players..... in the same way liverpool and Man U have done! Keep your nerve, these are exciting times, we have money to spend..... and time to spend it.... Two promising signings so far, a great manager in place and links to a lot of great talent. Relax and see what happens.... on the 1st of September you can hit the panic Button![/p][/quote]Yes I agree,all the talk in the world won't gives us any answers now,(unless the board comes clean),all we can do is wait and see what team turns out at Anfield,and then assess how they perform. Personally,I think we all might be pleasantly surprised. Positively4thStreet
  • Score: 12

9:51am Mon 28 Jul 14

Blue means Success says...

saint christopher wrote:
Like many of us I have gone through a roller-coaster of different emotions over the past couple of months.

Firstly seeing one of the best Saints teams ever arise from the ashes of near oblivion in the space of 4 remarkable years, largely built upon the output of what had now been recognised as one of the best academy set ups in the world and a blue-print for English football, and realistic ambitions of now being able to break into the top 6 with just a little more investment.

But then seeing the wind of cold financial reality and individual human ambition and greed begin to blow around St. Mary’s - the manager and nearly all the players who Saint’s had turned into top PL performers over the previous season rushing for the exit at the first opportunity to maximise their earning potential, with Saint’s apparently unwilling or unable to stem the flow.

In the midst of this however we appoint what nearly everyone seems to agree is the best manager we could ever have hoped for, who will hopefully continue to build on the foundations laid by Pardew, Adkins and Potch (and not forgetting Cortese). Along with a new board with a stated desire to be more open with the fans, to be a selling club, and who still had the aim of making Saints a European-class team but based on sound principles of building from within, all suddenly looked more rosy and once again we had reasons to be cheerful.

But to the dismay of all fans the hemorrhaging has continued, to the extent that all that gave us so much pleasure last season and hope for the future has effectively been not only dismantled but given to strengthen those very teams which we had hoped to start competing with. Yes, huge sums of money have been received, but as we know football-wise a bird in the hand is definitely worth 2 in a far-away bush who may or may not be as good as the one you had.

It wouldn’t be so bad if the promises of better communication had been kept, if only some general assurances that everything was under control - the almost total absence of such things inevitably giving the impression that they were not. Similarly we’d have understood and accepted the situation more if Saints were continually being linked with similar quality players currently being snapped up by even the West Ham and Stoke’s of this world – but the almost total absence of these things has also inevitably given rise to the impression we are a club frozen in the headlights of ever mounting transfer bids and with no clear strategy for replacing these players, in spite of the much-vaunted scouting system and promises of all transfer funds being ploughed back into the team.

As many fans have pointed out, we are perhaps a victim of our own success, only receiving this unwanted attention because we have been so successful. It has also brought home the reality of the power wielded by the top 5 or 6 clubs in the PL, who can now protect and bolster their own interests through their ability to pay grossly excessive fees and wages – something that no amount of legislation can now stop, short of a wages cap which will never happen.

I think even the most optimistic of us, who are thankful for all that has happened over the past 4 years and who believe we’re in safe hands for the future, cannot help but now be rather pessimistic with regards to the coming season and beyond.

Unless a handful of quality players suddenly appear on our books in the next couple of weeks (which everything indicates is unlikely) we surely do not have quality or experience in the current squad to avoid a season-long battle against relegation, with survival once again being our only priority.

But worst of all, as we continue to develop and blood youngsters from the academy as we surely will, the experience of the past couple of months can surely give us little hope that we can now hold onto such players the moment they start coming onto the radar of those who cannot produce such players themselves. Every academy player will inevitably now be thinking that getting in the first team is a stepping stone to riches and stardom – but unfortunately not with Saints. That doesn’t mean we won’t continue to love this great club and enjoy its occasional success in beating one of the big spenders or having a good cup run, but if recent events have taught us anything it is surely that, like the majority of other PL teams, that is realistically all we can look forward to.

Bit pessimistic I know but it’s how many of us surely feel at the moment.
The only way you can hold onto academy players for longer is if they are Saints fans. This also means they generally leave with a little more class as well. Your team needs to have a spine of Saints fans or youngsters that are local enough to appreciate the club. How many of your current crop are Saints fans? Just the new left back I believe.
[quote][p][bold]saint christopher[/bold] wrote: Like many of us I have gone through a roller-coaster of different emotions over the past couple of months. Firstly seeing one of the best Saints teams ever arise from the ashes of near oblivion in the space of 4 remarkable years, largely built upon the output of what had now been recognised as one of the best academy set ups in the world and a blue-print for English football, and realistic ambitions of now being able to break into the top 6 with just a little more investment. But then seeing the wind of cold financial reality and individual human ambition and greed begin to blow around St. Mary’s - the manager and nearly all the players who Saint’s had turned into top PL performers over the previous season rushing for the exit at the first opportunity to maximise their earning potential, with Saint’s apparently unwilling or unable to stem the flow. In the midst of this however we appoint what nearly everyone seems to agree is the best manager we could ever have hoped for, who will hopefully continue to build on the foundations laid by Pardew, Adkins and Potch (and not forgetting Cortese). Along with a new board with a stated desire to be more open with the fans, to be a selling club, and who still had the aim of making Saints a European-class team but based on sound principles of building from within, all suddenly looked more rosy and once again we had reasons to be cheerful. But to the dismay of all fans the hemorrhaging has continued, to the extent that all that gave us so much pleasure last season and hope for the future has effectively been not only dismantled but given to strengthen those very teams which we had hoped to start competing with. Yes, huge sums of money have been received, but as we know football-wise a bird in the hand is definitely worth 2 in a far-away bush who may or may not be as good as the one you had. It wouldn’t be so bad if the promises of better communication had been kept, if only some general assurances that everything was under control - the almost total absence of such things inevitably giving the impression that they were not. Similarly we’d have understood and accepted the situation more if Saints were continually being linked with similar quality players currently being snapped up by even the West Ham and Stoke’s of this world – but the almost total absence of these things has also inevitably given rise to the impression we are a club frozen in the headlights of ever mounting transfer bids and with no clear strategy for replacing these players, in spite of the much-vaunted scouting system and promises of all transfer funds being ploughed back into the team. As many fans have pointed out, we are perhaps a victim of our own success, only receiving this unwanted attention because we have been so successful. It has also brought home the reality of the power wielded by the top 5 or 6 clubs in the PL, who can now protect and bolster their own interests through their ability to pay grossly excessive fees and wages – something that no amount of legislation can now stop, short of a wages cap which will never happen. I think even the most optimistic of us, who are thankful for all that has happened over the past 4 years and who believe we’re in safe hands for the future, cannot help but now be rather pessimistic with regards to the coming season and beyond. Unless a handful of quality players suddenly appear on our books in the next couple of weeks (which everything indicates is unlikely) we surely do not have quality or experience in the current squad to avoid a season-long battle against relegation, with survival once again being our only priority. But worst of all, as we continue to develop and blood youngsters from the academy as we surely will, the experience of the past couple of months can surely give us little hope that we can now hold onto such players the moment they start coming onto the radar of those who cannot produce such players themselves. Every academy player will inevitably now be thinking that getting in the first team is a stepping stone to riches and stardom – but unfortunately not with Saints. That doesn’t mean we won’t continue to love this great club and enjoy its occasional success in beating one of the big spenders or having a good cup run, but if recent events have taught us anything it is surely that, like the majority of other PL teams, that is realistically all we can look forward to. Bit pessimistic I know but it’s how many of us surely feel at the moment.[/p][/quote]The only way you can hold onto academy players for longer is if they are Saints fans. This also means they generally leave with a little more class as well. Your team needs to have a spine of Saints fans or youngsters that are local enough to appreciate the club. How many of your current crop are Saints fans? Just the new left back I believe. Blue means Success
  • Score: 13

9:51am Mon 28 Jul 14

curtisaint says...

I feel sorry for the new manager if he manages to get a good team together and we do well come the end of the season are they all going to be sold seems like a no win situation
I feel sorry for the new manager if he manages to get a good team together and we do well come the end of the season are they all going to be sold seems like a no win situation curtisaint
  • Score: 10

9:52am Mon 28 Jul 14

SPIKEISLANDTRADER says...

Its TEAM SLAUGHTER not a cash cow. You DO NOT STRIP all assets , and then PLAY the SURVIVAL GAME this season !!
Its TEAM SLAUGHTER not a cash cow. You DO NOT STRIP all assets , and then PLAY the SURVIVAL GAME this season !! SPIKEISLANDTRADER
  • Score: -2

9:54am Mon 28 Jul 14

saintand266 says...

BarnetSaint wrote:
Where is Kruger by the way?
Hiding in a cupboard.
It defies belief that the club actually increased the price of tickets whilst presiding over this sorry mess.
Yes I know we keep being told to wait until the transfer window is closed but the message from the club is what?
Where are they hiding?
We have to trust that RoKo can pull some gems out and quickly because they will still take time to gel.
Kruger is locked in a cupboard with Sammy Lee knocking out new saints shirts , apparently he's not going to come out until they've sold them all .
Not sure whether that's shirts or players though x
[quote][p][bold]BarnetSaint[/bold] wrote: Where is Kruger by the way? Hiding in a cupboard. It defies belief that the club actually increased the price of tickets whilst presiding over this sorry mess. Yes I know we keep being told to wait until the transfer window is closed but the message from the club is what? Where are they hiding? We have to trust that RoKo can pull some gems out and quickly because they will still take time to gel.[/p][/quote]Kruger is locked in a cupboard with Sammy Lee knocking out new saints shirts , apparently he's not going to come out until they've sold them all . Not sure whether that's shirts or players though x saintand266
  • Score: -3

9:55am Mon 28 Jul 14

This is Southampton and we are the Saints says...

aldermoorboy wrote:
I believe we will have a good season with players who want to play for us. We have a great manager who will continue to develop the players.
Agree but what's to stop this happening again if by some fluke of luck we Finnish in the top half once more! Here lies are fundamental problem!
[quote][p][bold]aldermoorboy[/bold] wrote: I believe we will have a good season with players who want to play for us. We have a great manager who will continue to develop the players.[/p][/quote]Agree but what's to stop this happening again if by some fluke of luck we Finnish in the top half once more! Here lies are fundamental problem! This is Southampton and we are the Saints
  • Score: 2

9:57am Mon 28 Jul 14

BracknellSaint says...

The Chanbers deal makes now sense. 16 million is alot, but won't change our destiny. He could play CB, and develop further.
However, the kid has been told he should be getting Champions league, and also probably earning 4, or 5 times more than we offer.
So, realistically who could believe the kid would turn that down to stay at St Mary's? His head must have been turned by agents, so it's too late..
The Chanbers deal makes now sense. 16 million is alot, but won't change our destiny. He could play CB, and develop further. However, the kid has been told he should be getting Champions league, and also probably earning 4, or 5 times more than we offer. So, realistically who could believe the kid would turn that down to stay at St Mary's? His head must have been turned by agents, so it's too late.. BracknellSaint
  • Score: 4

9:58am Mon 28 Jul 14

Rising_Son says...

Ozmosis wrote:
"Premier League cash cow is to blame for mass exodus at Saints this summer". Partially. The fact that the players were concerned and unsettled with the lack of vision, direction and communication is the primary cause of the departures. If the board were as quiet with the players as they have been with the fans then who can blame them?
Or another very plausible reason they left is because they could get more money elsewhere.
[quote][p][bold]Ozmosis[/bold] wrote: "Premier League cash cow is to blame for mass exodus at Saints this summer". Partially. The fact that the players were concerned and unsettled with the lack of vision, direction and communication is the primary cause of the departures. If the board were as quiet with the players as they have been with the fans then who can blame them?[/p][/quote]Or another very plausible reason they left is because they could get more money elsewhere. Rising_Son
  • Score: 5

9:59am Mon 28 Jul 14

ecuk268 says...

BarnetSaint wrote:
Excellent article
Yes the premier league does stink and if a club like Saints has the audacity to try and break their cosy cartel then they will be mercilessly torn apart and pillaged.
Of course the disgraceful antics of some of our players does not help .
But honestly, that process is made simple when you have complete and utter buffoons at the helm like we have.
I would honestly fancy my chances with the ice hockey bloke and the charlton failure reed.
Do us a favour kat, please sell and move on, you've made your millions.
See ya.
Be careful what you wish for.

Let's see what the situation is at the end of August when the transfer window closes.

Maybe a case of better the devil you know. If Ms Leibherr does sell the club, the new owner could be worse. Look what happened to Cardiff and Blackburn.
[quote][p][bold]BarnetSaint[/bold] wrote: Excellent article Yes the premier league does stink and if a club like Saints has the audacity to try and break their cosy cartel then they will be mercilessly torn apart and pillaged. Of course the disgraceful antics of some of our players does not help . But honestly, that process is made simple when you have complete and utter buffoons at the helm like we have. I would honestly fancy my chances with the ice hockey bloke and the charlton failure reed. Do us a favour kat, please sell and move on, you've made your millions. See ya.[/p][/quote]Be careful what you wish for. Let's see what the situation is at the end of August when the transfer window closes. Maybe a case of better the devil you know. If Ms Leibherr does sell the club, the new owner could be worse. Look what happened to Cardiff and Blackburn. ecuk268
  • Score: 5

10:01am Mon 28 Jul 14

saintsfan76 says...

A fair and balanced article. We have got crazy amounts of money for Shaw, Lovren and Chambers (assuming he goes) plus a nice profit on Lambert. Lallana is the only one I think we should have held out for more on. Mixing with players from.the elite 4 was probably the worse thing that could have happened. Why should they play for Saints and earn x amount a week when they could double it moving it elsewhere.
A fair and balanced article. We have got crazy amounts of money for Shaw, Lovren and Chambers (assuming he goes) plus a nice profit on Lambert. Lallana is the only one I think we should have held out for more on. Mixing with players from.the elite 4 was probably the worse thing that could have happened. Why should they play for Saints and earn x amount a week when they could double it moving it elsewhere. saintsfan76
  • Score: 2

10:04am Mon 28 Jul 14

andoru says...

Awful headline (not a shade on the Celtic one) but decent article. Sums up the situation very well. Problem is, it's preaching to the choir. We'll all come on here and agree with it, but it won't make a blind bit of difference to how the game is run, or play on the conscience of any 'big club' bosses. Football as a sport died a long time ago.
Awful headline (not a shade on the Celtic one) but decent article. Sums up the situation very well. Problem is, it's preaching to the choir. We'll all come on here and agree with it, but it won't make a blind bit of difference to how the game is run, or play on the conscience of any 'big club' bosses. Football as a sport died a long time ago. andoru
  • Score: 7

10:04am Mon 28 Jul 14

canfordcherry says...

I'm surprised you lot haven't been protesting at the ground yet. Demanding answers to what has happened. Whens the R Solent fans forum?
I know we have a lot of banter between us as fans but I do really feel for you guys and the predicament you find yourselves in, especially the lack of info coming from your club.
I'm surprised you lot haven't been protesting at the ground yet. Demanding answers to what has happened. Whens the R Solent fans forum? I know we have a lot of banter between us as fans but I do really feel for you guys and the predicament you find yourselves in, especially the lack of info coming from your club. canfordcherry
  • Score: 8

10:05am Mon 28 Jul 14

bathsaints says...

Although I can understand players wanting to leave for more money and playing for so called bigger clubs I don't understand why when we were so close to breaking top 6 they didn't stay together for another year unless something wrong behind the scenes. Chambers makes no sense especially as Arsenal have just purchased a new right back and have an established centre back. So board what is going on behind the scenes? I am enjoying this open communication from then!! not....If we let chambers go then the deal should be he is loaned back to us for the season!!! We don't need to let players go that we don't want to!...the glimmer of hope is Big Ron...he seems upbeat and is a proven manager and a person who can attract people to play for him...come on saints lets have a positive week!
Although I can understand players wanting to leave for more money and playing for so called bigger clubs I don't understand why when we were so close to breaking top 6 they didn't stay together for another year unless something wrong behind the scenes. Chambers makes no sense especially as Arsenal have just purchased a new right back and have an established centre back. So board what is going on behind the scenes? I am enjoying this open communication from then!! not....If we let chambers go then the deal should be he is loaned back to us for the season!!! We don't need to let players go that we don't want to!...the glimmer of hope is Big Ron...he seems upbeat and is a proven manager and a person who can attract people to play for him...come on saints lets have a positive week! bathsaints
  • Score: 7

10:06am Mon 28 Jul 14

saints80 says...

What is quite clear is that saints are a selling club when they consider the right amount of money has been put on the table. We needed to have had replacements in earlier in order to give them time to gel and now no doubt our spineless board will blame koeman for failure. I can only hope we spend the 100 mill war chest that the papers keep raving about on players that koeman knows and are international quality. Only then might we have a chance. For #$#$ sake saints just dont sell schneiderlin, Rodriguez or fonte. Grow a pair!
What is quite clear is that saints are a selling club when they consider the right amount of money has been put on the table. We needed to have had replacements in earlier in order to give them time to gel and now no doubt our spineless board will blame koeman for failure. I can only hope we spend the 100 mill war chest that the papers keep raving about on players that koeman knows and are international quality. Only then might we have a chance. For #$#$ sake saints just dont sell schneiderlin, Rodriguez or fonte. Grow a pair! saints80
  • Score: 8

10:16am Mon 28 Jul 14

Numpty Girl says...

canfordcherry wrote:
I'm surprised you lot haven't been protesting at the ground yet. Demanding answers to what has happened. Whens the R Solent fans forum?
I know we have a lot of banter between us as fans but I do really feel for you guys and the predicament you find yourselves in, especially the lack of info coming from your club.
Unfortunately, most of our fans are happy-clappers and would still be smiling if Les Reed were to sell the whole first team.
[quote][p][bold]canfordcherry[/bold] wrote: I'm surprised you lot haven't been protesting at the ground yet. Demanding answers to what has happened. Whens the R Solent fans forum? I know we have a lot of banter between us as fans but I do really feel for you guys and the predicament you find yourselves in, especially the lack of info coming from your club.[/p][/quote]Unfortunately, most of our fans are happy-clappers and would still be smiling if Les Reed were to sell the whole first team. Numpty Girl
  • Score: -8

10:21am Mon 28 Jul 14

Rising_Son says...

Rising_Son wrote:
Ozmosis wrote:
"Premier League cash cow is to blame for mass exodus at Saints this summer". Partially. The fact that the players were concerned and unsettled with the lack of vision, direction and communication is the primary cause of the departures. If the board were as quiet with the players as they have been with the fans then who can blame them?
Or another very plausible reason they left is because they could get more money elsewhere.
If we could have kept the team together and signed three or more players, the future would be looking very bright. Mind you, how much would it have cost us to do that? Looking at the speculation about the wages Lallana, Shaw, etc. are getting, it wouldn't have come cheap. Of course, if we had finished next season in the top four and qualified for the CL, it would have been paid back handsomely. If we didn't get in the top four, we would probably be either facing an exodus, like we are now, or, worse still, a bunch of players on wages we couldn't afford who 'honour' their contracts right until the last day. That was the gamble.
[quote][p][bold]Rising_Son[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ozmosis[/bold] wrote: "Premier League cash cow is to blame for mass exodus at Saints this summer". Partially. The fact that the players were concerned and unsettled with the lack of vision, direction and communication is the primary cause of the departures. If the board were as quiet with the players as they have been with the fans then who can blame them?[/p][/quote]Or another very plausible reason they left is because they could get more money elsewhere.[/p][/quote]If we could have kept the team together and signed three or more players, the future would be looking very bright. Mind you, how much would it have cost us to do that? Looking at the speculation about the wages Lallana, Shaw, etc. are getting, it wouldn't have come cheap. Of course, if we had finished next season in the top four and qualified for the CL, it would have been paid back handsomely. If we didn't get in the top four, we would probably be either facing an exodus, like we are now, or, worse still, a bunch of players on wages we couldn't afford who 'honour' their contracts right until the last day. That was the gamble. Rising_Son
  • Score: 3

10:23am Mon 28 Jul 14

miltonarcher says...

How come this is happening to Saints? What about Everton? Why cant we afford to pay the wages when clubs like Spurs can, their ground holds around 34000 I believe. We were 3-4 players away from getting into the top 6, opportunity missed. Why no statement from SFC? Why are they ignoring us? Spider will go, JRod will be gone in Jan. We are now at best a mid to lower table outfit, or even worse, do the Board perceive that being a yo yo club is more profitable ?
How come this is happening to Saints? What about Everton? Why cant we afford to pay the wages when clubs like Spurs can, their ground holds around 34000 I believe. We were 3-4 players away from getting into the top 6, opportunity missed. Why no statement from SFC? Why are they ignoring us? Spider will go, JRod will be gone in Jan. We are now at best a mid to lower table outfit, or even worse, do the Board perceive that being a yo yo club is more profitable ? miltonarcher
  • Score: 1

10:23am Mon 28 Jul 14

saint bartley says...

Just pondering what our squad situation would be if Cortese was still here...
Just pondering what our squad situation would be if Cortese was still here... saint bartley
  • Score: -3

10:28am Mon 28 Jul 14

Rising_Son says...

miltonarcher wrote:
How come this is happening to Saints? What about Everton? Why cant we afford to pay the wages when clubs like Spurs can, their ground holds around 34000 I believe. We were 3-4 players away from getting into the top 6, opportunity missed. Why no statement from SFC? Why are they ignoring us? Spider will go, JRod will be gone in Jan. We are now at best a mid to lower table outfit, or even worse, do the Board perceive that being a yo yo club is more profitable ?
Everton have been in the top division since the beginning of time. They dribble players every year, just like we did when we were a top division fixture. We've only just been noticed again, and paying for it with an exodus.
[quote][p][bold]miltonarcher[/bold] wrote: How come this is happening to Saints? What about Everton? Why cant we afford to pay the wages when clubs like Spurs can, their ground holds around 34000 I believe. We were 3-4 players away from getting into the top 6, opportunity missed. Why no statement from SFC? Why are they ignoring us? Spider will go, JRod will be gone in Jan. We are now at best a mid to lower table outfit, or even worse, do the Board perceive that being a yo yo club is more profitable ?[/p][/quote]Everton have been in the top division since the beginning of time. They dribble players every year, just like we did when we were a top division fixture. We've only just been noticed again, and paying for it with an exodus. Rising_Son
  • Score: 6

10:30am Mon 28 Jul 14

OSPREYSAINT says...

Numpty Girl wrote:
canfordcherry wrote:
I'm surprised you lot haven't been protesting at the ground yet. Demanding answers to what has happened. Whens the R Solent fans forum?
I know we have a lot of banter between us as fans but I do really feel for you guys and the predicament you find yourselves in, especially the lack of info coming from your club.
Unfortunately, most of our fans are happy-clappers and would still be smiling if Les Reed were to sell the whole first team.
Do you actually believe that? Wrong on several levels, most of our fans at the moment are neggies and fully justified at being so, they have nothing to be happy about, I was under the impression we had already sold the best part of the first team and are having to start again all over. Not sure about Les Reed, but the lack of any clarity has more to do with that the actual actions. A few explanations and any information on future plans would help but it has got a stage where we cannot believe anything that has been told us, because patently it has been a pack of lies, it seems. I am desperate to give my support, but it needs more than a continued silence and a steady stream of players joining the exodus. Feed me good positive news and I will back you up. It isn't rocket science.
[quote][p][bold]Numpty Girl[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]canfordcherry[/bold] wrote: I'm surprised you lot haven't been protesting at the ground yet. Demanding answers to what has happened. Whens the R Solent fans forum? I know we have a lot of banter between us as fans but I do really feel for you guys and the predicament you find yourselves in, especially the lack of info coming from your club.[/p][/quote]Unfortunately, most of our fans are happy-clappers and would still be smiling if Les Reed were to sell the whole first team.[/p][/quote]Do you actually believe that? Wrong on several levels, most of our fans at the moment are neggies and fully justified at being so, they have nothing to be happy about, I was under the impression we had already sold the best part of the first team and are having to start again all over. Not sure about Les Reed, but the lack of any clarity has more to do with that the actual actions. A few explanations and any information on future plans would help but it has got a stage where we cannot believe anything that has been told us, because patently it has been a pack of lies, it seems. I am desperate to give my support, but it needs more than a continued silence and a steady stream of players joining the exodus. Feed me good positive news and I will back you up. It isn't rocket science. OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 4

10:31am Mon 28 Jul 14

de Heiligen paard 101 says...

ecuk268 wrote:
BarnetSaint wrote:
Excellent article
Yes the premier league does stink and if a club like Saints has the audacity to try and break their cosy cartel then they will be mercilessly torn apart and pillaged.
Of course the disgraceful antics of some of our players does not help .
But honestly, that process is made simple when you have complete and utter buffoons at the helm like we have.
I would honestly fancy my chances with the ice hockey bloke and the charlton failure reed.
Do us a favour kat, please sell and move on, you've made your millions.
See ya.
Be careful what you wish for.

Let's see what the situation is at the end of August when the transfer window closes.

Maybe a case of better the devil you know. If Ms Leibherr does sell the club, the new owner could be worse. Look what happened to Cardiff and Blackburn.
and hull, and Coventry, and leeds, and poopey!

all those clubs got new owners, some the fans wanted, and look at them now!

has anyone thought that selling a young full back, who may well be full of potential (but not every player reaches their potential), might be the decision of the manager?
Ronnie was a true world class defender and it wouldn't take him long to see real class in a defensive player. perhaps Ronnie doesn't think chambers is up to it, has he played him much in the friendlies? maybe just maybe Ronnie sees clyne as the first choice RB then sees cork as a good back up, hes played well there before, and see a need to have chambers at the club. if arsenil are willing to pay £16mill for our second choice full back when we have really good cover in that position shouldn't we rip their arm off to take it.
personally I rate chambers but have always said I think clyne is a better player. perhaps chambers isn't happy to sit on the bench and already sees himself as a world class defender who `should` be in the champs league and `should` be earning £100k a week like luke?
[quote][p][bold]ecuk268[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BarnetSaint[/bold] wrote: Excellent article Yes the premier league does stink and if a club like Saints has the audacity to try and break their cosy cartel then they will be mercilessly torn apart and pillaged. Of course the disgraceful antics of some of our players does not help . But honestly, that process is made simple when you have complete and utter buffoons at the helm like we have. I would honestly fancy my chances with the ice hockey bloke and the charlton failure reed. Do us a favour kat, please sell and move on, you've made your millions. See ya.[/p][/quote]Be careful what you wish for. Let's see what the situation is at the end of August when the transfer window closes. Maybe a case of better the devil you know. If Ms Leibherr does sell the club, the new owner could be worse. Look what happened to Cardiff and Blackburn.[/p][/quote]and hull, and Coventry, and leeds, and poopey! all those clubs got new owners, some the fans wanted, and look at them now! has anyone thought that selling a young full back, who may well be full of potential (but not every player reaches their potential), might be the decision of the manager? Ronnie was a true world class defender and it wouldn't take him long to see real class in a defensive player. perhaps Ronnie doesn't think chambers is up to it, has he played him much in the friendlies? maybe just maybe Ronnie sees clyne as the first choice RB then sees cork as a good back up, hes played well there before, and see a need to have chambers at the club. if arsenil are willing to pay £16mill for our second choice full back when we have really good cover in that position shouldn't we rip their arm off to take it. personally I rate chambers but have always said I think clyne is a better player. perhaps chambers isn't happy to sit on the bench and already sees himself as a world class defender who `should` be in the champs league and `should` be earning £100k a week like luke? de Heiligen paard 101
  • Score: 4

10:31am Mon 28 Jul 14

Rising_Son says...

Numpty Girl wrote:
canfordcherry wrote:
I'm surprised you lot haven't been protesting at the ground yet. Demanding answers to what has happened. Whens the R Solent fans forum?
I know we have a lot of banter between us as fans but I do really feel for you guys and the predicament you find yourselves in, especially the lack of info coming from your club.
Unfortunately, most of our fans are happy-clappers and would still be smiling if Les Reed were to sell the whole first team.
And the negheads would still be throwing their toys out of their prams even if we bought better players than those who left.
[quote][p][bold]Numpty Girl[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]canfordcherry[/bold] wrote: I'm surprised you lot haven't been protesting at the ground yet. Demanding answers to what has happened. Whens the R Solent fans forum? I know we have a lot of banter between us as fans but I do really feel for you guys and the predicament you find yourselves in, especially the lack of info coming from your club.[/p][/quote]Unfortunately, most of our fans are happy-clappers and would still be smiling if Les Reed were to sell the whole first team.[/p][/quote]And the negheads would still be throwing their toys out of their prams even if we bought better players than those who left. Rising_Son
  • Score: 4

10:33am Mon 28 Jul 14

OSPREYSAINT says...

saint bartley wrote:
Just pondering what our squad situation would be if Cortese was still here...
Hypothetical now, but probably we would have a few unhappy players staying on in fear of their lives perhaps, as soon as NC went, the fear factor went with it.
[quote][p][bold]saint bartley[/bold] wrote: Just pondering what our squad situation would be if Cortese was still here...[/p][/quote]Hypothetical now, but probably we would have a few unhappy players staying on in fear of their lives perhaps, as soon as NC went, the fear factor went with it. OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 3

10:34am Mon 28 Jul 14

Tony in Liberia says...

An absolutely brilliant article, a first-rate piece of journalism; possibly the best thing I've read in the Echo for many years. I found myself nodding in agreement with almost every superbly crafted word, and can't see how anyone could find anything to disagree with ....
An absolutely brilliant article, a first-rate piece of journalism; possibly the best thing I've read in the Echo for many years. I found myself nodding in agreement with almost every superbly crafted word, and can't see how anyone could find anything to disagree with .... Tony in Liberia
  • Score: 8

10:36am Mon 28 Jul 14

vidman says...

According to BBC Benda now wants JayRod
According to BBC Benda now wants JayRod vidman
  • Score: -2

10:42am Mon 28 Jul 14

Shareholder says...

warrens 76 wrote:
Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of..

He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be..

Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this….

I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.
And how was Cortese going to achieve that? He promised an awful lot to both players and fans. The trouble is he didn't check with the owner that she was going to pay for it. The cost of maintaining such a high value club is enormous and it doesn't much matter how rich you are you still need the branding to be international and the stadium to be large enough to ensure your income streams can support the expenditure - and you need to have enough fans to fill the stadium. That all takes time, far longer than the splashing out on expensive players and their ever increasing wage demands. Cortese was happy to engage in the Premier League's nonsensical policy of allowing otherwise bankrupt clubs to continue spending in the pursuit of European pay days to service the debt. And there lies the real problem. The so called big clubs in the Premiership are all technically insolvent. They have to keep qualifying for the Champions League to service their ludicrous debts. They have to keep buying the best from so called lesser clubs to maintain that process - to create more debt. The Premier League will never do what American sports leagues have done and introduce wage caps and draft systems because that would inevitably lead to a Man Utd or an Arsenal going bust. And the media tycoons wouldn't like that as viewer confidence would fall and they'd lose profits. Then they wouldn't offer enough money to pay the silly wages the big boys pay out so the players would quit the UK for more lucrative climes. So don't blame our current board or our owner. Blame the real culprit - professional football. Be it the Premier League, UEFA, La Liga, FIFA etc it stinks to high heaven and we fans are mugs for putting up with it. While things stay as they are every team outside the mini league of the'top six' will continue to lose their best players. Our problem is we have seven or eight that fit the bill - Swansea have two or three and all of them are likely to go (see their fans outrage at that - it matches ours) and the same is true of any other club, it just depends on how many. And if Koeman does succeed expect more of the same next year. Cortese wanted to do it all in a rush - before likely quitting to go to bigger club in Spain or Italy. We should remember the words of Markus Liebherr when he was asked how he would achieve his ambitions for the club: 'In small steps' he said. He calculated his ambition of returning the club to the Premier League would take five years, after his death Cortese accelerated things and did it in four. I think Markus wouldn't have changed his approach had he lived and would take small steps towards the next goal of consistent European football. After all, small steps is how he built his fortune. So in this respect his daughter is more in line with her father's philosophy than was Cortese and I'm happy with that thanks. So let's get everything in perspective, support our club and all work however we can to help bring about the changes to our game that are so badly needed to restore balance and fairness.
[quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of.. He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be.. Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this…. I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.[/p][/quote]And how was Cortese going to achieve that? He promised an awful lot to both players and fans. The trouble is he didn't check with the owner that she was going to pay for it. The cost of maintaining such a high value club is enormous and it doesn't much matter how rich you are you still need the branding to be international and the stadium to be large enough to ensure your income streams can support the expenditure - and you need to have enough fans to fill the stadium. That all takes time, far longer than the splashing out on expensive players and their ever increasing wage demands. Cortese was happy to engage in the Premier League's nonsensical policy of allowing otherwise bankrupt clubs to continue spending in the pursuit of European pay days to service the debt. And there lies the real problem. The so called big clubs in the Premiership are all technically insolvent. They have to keep qualifying for the Champions League to service their ludicrous debts. They have to keep buying the best from so called lesser clubs to maintain that process - to create more debt. The Premier League will never do what American sports leagues have done and introduce wage caps and draft systems because that would inevitably lead to a Man Utd or an Arsenal going bust. And the media tycoons wouldn't like that as viewer confidence would fall and they'd lose profits. Then they wouldn't offer enough money to pay the silly wages the big boys pay out so the players would quit the UK for more lucrative climes. So don't blame our current board or our owner. Blame the real culprit - professional football. Be it the Premier League, UEFA, La Liga, FIFA etc it stinks to high heaven and we fans are mugs for putting up with it. While things stay as they are every team outside the mini league of the'top six' will continue to lose their best players. Our problem is we have seven or eight that fit the bill - Swansea have two or three and all of them are likely to go (see their fans outrage at that - it matches ours) and the same is true of any other club, it just depends on how many. And if Koeman does succeed expect more of the same next year. Cortese wanted to do it all in a rush - before likely quitting to go to bigger club in Spain or Italy. We should remember the words of Markus Liebherr when he was asked how he would achieve his ambitions for the club: 'In small steps' he said. He calculated his ambition of returning the club to the Premier League would take five years, after his death Cortese accelerated things and did it in four. I think Markus wouldn't have changed his approach had he lived and would take small steps towards the next goal of consistent European football. After all, small steps is how he built his fortune. So in this respect his daughter is more in line with her father's philosophy than was Cortese and I'm happy with that thanks. So let's get everything in perspective, support our club and all work however we can to help bring about the changes to our game that are so badly needed to restore balance and fairness. Shareholder
  • Score: 12

10:43am Mon 28 Jul 14

Crossley Place Saint says...

Tony in Liberia wrote:
An absolutely brilliant article, a first-rate piece of journalism; possibly the best thing I've read in the Echo for many years. I found myself nodding in agreement with almost every superbly crafted word, and can't see how anyone could find anything to disagree with ....
Well there are more than 800 comments on that thread, with a very wide range of opinions, so that gives potentially another 800 articles for the Echo to rehash!
[quote][p][bold]Tony in Liberia[/bold] wrote: An absolutely brilliant article, a first-rate piece of journalism; possibly the best thing I've read in the Echo for many years. I found myself nodding in agreement with almost every superbly crafted word, and can't see how anyone could find anything to disagree with ....[/p][/quote]Well there are more than 800 comments on that thread, with a very wide range of opinions, so that gives potentially another 800 articles for the Echo to rehash! Crossley Place Saint
  • Score: 1

10:44am Mon 28 Jul 14

Alicesdad says...

What must Koeman be thinking right now? He is a man of undoubted skills and experience and we have yet to see how he handles our situation. I wish him all the very best.

Yet he must feel like someone who has bought a Rolls Royce then found out too late it doesn't come with any engine or gear box as they have been sold. So far all he has been allowed to buy are a few spares from his previous car....

.... and on a distant yacht, moored offshore for tax purposes a billionaire sits sipping his morning coffee ..... he idly picks up his small note pad and pencil and ticks off a name .. he reviews the list .. "not many left" he says quietly... "Lovren took too long, I hope that Schneiderlin and Chambers move a little quicker " ".. that leaves Wanyama,
Ward-Prowse, Cork and Boruc" .... he ponders the list for a moment and calls his assistant to his sun lounger ... "Can you get Nicola on the line please.. I need an update..." .. the assistant speeds off to get the phone and doesn't hear the muffled chuckle behind him "... mwa ha ha ... soon it will be mine, all mine .... mwa ha ha ha ha " ...
What must Koeman be thinking right now? He is a man of undoubted skills and experience and we have yet to see how he handles our situation. I wish him all the very best. Yet he must feel like someone who has bought a Rolls Royce then found out too late it doesn't come with any engine or gear box as they have been sold. So far all he has been allowed to buy are a few spares from his previous car.... .... and on a distant yacht, moored offshore for tax purposes a billionaire sits sipping his morning coffee ..... he idly picks up his small note pad and pencil and ticks off a name .. he reviews the list .. "not many left" he says quietly... "Lovren took too long, I hope that Schneiderlin and Chambers move a little quicker " ".. that leaves Wanyama, Ward-Prowse, Cork and Boruc" .... he ponders the list for a moment and calls his assistant to his sun lounger ... "Can you get Nicola on the line please.. I need an update..." .. the assistant speeds off to get the phone and doesn't hear the muffled chuckle behind him "... mwa ha ha ... soon it will be mine, all mine .... mwa ha ha ha ha " ... Alicesdad
  • Score: -7

10:46am Mon 28 Jul 14

warrens 76 says...

Shareholder wrote:
warrens 76 wrote:
Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of..

He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be..

Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this….

I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.
And how was Cortese going to achieve that? He promised an awful lot to both players and fans. The trouble is he didn't check with the owner that she was going to pay for it. The cost of maintaining such a high value club is enormous and it doesn't much matter how rich you are you still need the branding to be international and the stadium to be large enough to ensure your income streams can support the expenditure - and you need to have enough fans to fill the stadium. That all takes time, far longer than the splashing out on expensive players and their ever increasing wage demands. Cortese was happy to engage in the Premier League's nonsensical policy of allowing otherwise bankrupt clubs to continue spending in the pursuit of European pay days to service the debt. And there lies the real problem. The so called big clubs in the Premiership are all technically insolvent. They have to keep qualifying for the Champions League to service their ludicrous debts. They have to keep buying the best from so called lesser clubs to maintain that process - to create more debt. The Premier League will never do what American sports leagues have done and introduce wage caps and draft systems because that would inevitably lead to a Man Utd or an Arsenal going bust. And the media tycoons wouldn't like that as viewer confidence would fall and they'd lose profits. Then they wouldn't offer enough money to pay the silly wages the big boys pay out so the players would quit the UK for more lucrative climes. So don't blame our current board or our owner. Blame the real culprit - professional football. Be it the Premier League, UEFA, La Liga, FIFA etc it stinks to high heaven and we fans are mugs for putting up with it. While things stay as they are every team outside the mini league of the'top six' will continue to lose their best players. Our problem is we have seven or eight that fit the bill - Swansea have two or three and all of them are likely to go (see their fans outrage at that - it matches ours) and the same is true of any other club, it just depends on how many. And if Koeman does succeed expect more of the same next year. Cortese wanted to do it all in a rush - before likely quitting to go to bigger club in Spain or Italy. We should remember the words of Markus Liebherr when he was asked how he would achieve his ambitions for the club: 'In small steps' he said. He calculated his ambition of returning the club to the Premier League would take five years, after his death Cortese accelerated things and did it in four. I think Markus wouldn't have changed his approach had he lived and would take small steps towards the next goal of consistent European football. After all, small steps is how he built his fortune. So in this respect his daughter is more in line with her father's philosophy than was Cortese and I'm happy with that thanks. So let's get everything in perspective, support our club and all work however we can to help bring about the changes to our game that are so badly needed to restore balance and fairness.
No he was not bankrupting us.. the signings of all the players to long term contracts even MoPo £2 million was the work of a shrewd banker not the profligate chairman you allude to…

Using ML's money he turned a £14 million investment into £200-250 million…this is a completely different indeed unique situation for any club reaching the premier league…he did it shrewdly, that is what you are missing.
[quote][p][bold]Shareholder[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of.. He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be.. Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this…. I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.[/p][/quote]And how was Cortese going to achieve that? He promised an awful lot to both players and fans. The trouble is he didn't check with the owner that she was going to pay for it. The cost of maintaining such a high value club is enormous and it doesn't much matter how rich you are you still need the branding to be international and the stadium to be large enough to ensure your income streams can support the expenditure - and you need to have enough fans to fill the stadium. That all takes time, far longer than the splashing out on expensive players and their ever increasing wage demands. Cortese was happy to engage in the Premier League's nonsensical policy of allowing otherwise bankrupt clubs to continue spending in the pursuit of European pay days to service the debt. And there lies the real problem. The so called big clubs in the Premiership are all technically insolvent. They have to keep qualifying for the Champions League to service their ludicrous debts. They have to keep buying the best from so called lesser clubs to maintain that process - to create more debt. The Premier League will never do what American sports leagues have done and introduce wage caps and draft systems because that would inevitably lead to a Man Utd or an Arsenal going bust. And the media tycoons wouldn't like that as viewer confidence would fall and they'd lose profits. Then they wouldn't offer enough money to pay the silly wages the big boys pay out so the players would quit the UK for more lucrative climes. So don't blame our current board or our owner. Blame the real culprit - professional football. Be it the Premier League, UEFA, La Liga, FIFA etc it stinks to high heaven and we fans are mugs for putting up with it. While things stay as they are every team outside the mini league of the'top six' will continue to lose their best players. Our problem is we have seven or eight that fit the bill - Swansea have two or three and all of them are likely to go (see their fans outrage at that - it matches ours) and the same is true of any other club, it just depends on how many. And if Koeman does succeed expect more of the same next year. Cortese wanted to do it all in a rush - before likely quitting to go to bigger club in Spain or Italy. We should remember the words of Markus Liebherr when he was asked how he would achieve his ambitions for the club: 'In small steps' he said. He calculated his ambition of returning the club to the Premier League would take five years, after his death Cortese accelerated things and did it in four. I think Markus wouldn't have changed his approach had he lived and would take small steps towards the next goal of consistent European football. After all, small steps is how he built his fortune. So in this respect his daughter is more in line with her father's philosophy than was Cortese and I'm happy with that thanks. So let's get everything in perspective, support our club and all work however we can to help bring about the changes to our game that are so badly needed to restore balance and fairness.[/p][/quote]No he was not bankrupting us.. the signings of all the players to long term contracts even MoPo £2 million was the work of a shrewd banker not the profligate chairman you allude to… Using ML's money he turned a £14 million investment into £200-250 million…this is a completely different indeed unique situation for any club reaching the premier league…he did it shrewdly, that is what you are missing. warrens 76
  • Score: -3

10:51am Mon 28 Jul 14

BracknellSaint says...

miltonarcher wrote:
How come this is happening to Saints? What about Everton? Why cant we afford to pay the wages when clubs like Spurs can, their ground holds around 34000 I believe. We were 3-4 players away from getting into the top 6, opportunity missed. Why no statement from SFC? Why are they ignoring us? Spider will go, JRod will be gone in Jan. We are now at best a mid to lower table outfit, or even worse, do the Board perceive that being a yo yo club is more profitable ?
Sponsorship, plus Spurs being in the top flight longer term than us , located in London , with European participation, including CL, in the past few years.And even then they've done so by selling best players like Bale and Modric to fund further growth.
Size of stadium almost irrelevant in the modern game- Perhaps UTD with such a huge capacity make something from it, but if an increase of 15k seats only really generates about 7 million a year, and only if sold out each game, it's peanuts compared to TV deals and sponsorship etc.
[quote][p][bold]miltonarcher[/bold] wrote: How come this is happening to Saints? What about Everton? Why cant we afford to pay the wages when clubs like Spurs can, their ground holds around 34000 I believe. We were 3-4 players away from getting into the top 6, opportunity missed. Why no statement from SFC? Why are they ignoring us? Spider will go, JRod will be gone in Jan. We are now at best a mid to lower table outfit, or even worse, do the Board perceive that being a yo yo club is more profitable ?[/p][/quote]Sponsorship, plus Spurs being in the top flight longer term than us , located in London , with European participation, including CL, in the past few years.And even then they've done so by selling best players like Bale and Modric to fund further growth. Size of stadium almost irrelevant in the modern game- Perhaps UTD with such a huge capacity make something from it, but if an increase of 15k seats only really generates about 7 million a year, and only if sold out each game, it's peanuts compared to TV deals and sponsorship etc. BracknellSaint
  • Score: 3

10:53am Mon 28 Jul 14

de Heiligen paard 101 says...

warrens 76 wrote:
Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of..

He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be..

Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this….

I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.
warrens have you woken up or is this still one of your dreams?

a) world class team? theres £100mill at least needed!
b) expanded the stadium? several 10`s of millions
c) created a global brand? how? he hadn't been doing it so far, in homage to seed, he signed a deal with aap3 who? then tried to get a deal with a `global brand` but couldn't so had to go back to aap3. lost the deal with adidas. not really the actions of someone trying to create a global brand is it?
c) (again) southern identity and kids? again been here for years and what has he done towards that so far? nothing!

warrens saint NC as you see him and those plans were totally unsustainable, it was a good dream but a dream that would have cost 100`s of millions of someone else`s money a year! for a start we would need to bring in `world class` players each year because even the top teams cant keep their players. it would have meant offering wages of £100k a week and more to try to keep the good players, lukes already earning that! its ok to dream when you aren't footing the bill. I don't know why you cant see that, I don't know why you cant see that getting into the top 4 isnt as easy or cheap as you think. I don't know why you cant see that even if we did get there the players would still want to move. I don't know why you cant understand that KL didn't want to fork out a small fortune to follow someone else`s dream. we weren't as close to the top 4 as some think. spuds spent over £100mill last season and didn't get near it. what makes you think we would?
[quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of.. He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be.. Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this…. I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.[/p][/quote]warrens have you woken up or is this still one of your dreams? a) world class team? theres £100mill at least needed! b) expanded the stadium? several 10`s of millions c) created a global brand? how? he hadn't been doing it so far, in homage to seed, he signed a deal with aap3 who? then tried to get a deal with a `global brand` but couldn't so had to go back to aap3. lost the deal with adidas. not really the actions of someone trying to create a global brand is it? c) (again) southern identity and kids? again been here for years and what has he done towards that so far? nothing! warrens saint NC as you see him and those plans were totally unsustainable, it was a good dream but a dream that would have cost 100`s of millions of someone else`s money a year! for a start we would need to bring in `world class` players each year because even the top teams cant keep their players. it would have meant offering wages of £100k a week and more to try to keep the good players, lukes already earning that! its ok to dream when you aren't footing the bill. I don't know why you cant see that, I don't know why you cant see that getting into the top 4 isnt as easy or cheap as you think. I don't know why you cant see that even if we did get there the players would still want to move. I don't know why you cant understand that KL didn't want to fork out a small fortune to follow someone else`s dream. we weren't as close to the top 4 as some think. spuds spent over £100mill last season and didn't get near it. what makes you think we would? de Heiligen paard 101
  • Score: 6

10:57am Mon 28 Jul 14

willygetaway says...

warrens 76 wrote:
Shareholder wrote:
warrens 76 wrote:
Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of..

He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be..

Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this….

I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.
And how was Cortese going to achieve that? He promised an awful lot to both players and fans. The trouble is he didn't check with the owner that she was going to pay for it. The cost of maintaining such a high value club is enormous and it doesn't much matter how rich you are you still need the branding to be international and the stadium to be large enough to ensure your income streams can support the expenditure - and you need to have enough fans to fill the stadium. That all takes time, far longer than the splashing out on expensive players and their ever increasing wage demands. Cortese was happy to engage in the Premier League's nonsensical policy of allowing otherwise bankrupt clubs to continue spending in the pursuit of European pay days to service the debt. And there lies the real problem. The so called big clubs in the Premiership are all technically insolvent. They have to keep qualifying for the Champions League to service their ludicrous debts. They have to keep buying the best from so called lesser clubs to maintain that process - to create more debt. The Premier League will never do what American sports leagues have done and introduce wage caps and draft systems because that would inevitably lead to a Man Utd or an Arsenal going bust. And the media tycoons wouldn't like that as viewer confidence would fall and they'd lose profits. Then they wouldn't offer enough money to pay the silly wages the big boys pay out so the players would quit the UK for more lucrative climes. So don't blame our current board or our owner. Blame the real culprit - professional football. Be it the Premier League, UEFA, La Liga, FIFA etc it stinks to high heaven and we fans are mugs for putting up with it. While things stay as they are every team outside the mini league of the'top six' will continue to lose their best players. Our problem is we have seven or eight that fit the bill - Swansea have two or three and all of them are likely to go (see their fans outrage at that - it matches ours) and the same is true of any other club, it just depends on how many. And if Koeman does succeed expect more of the same next year. Cortese wanted to do it all in a rush - before likely quitting to go to bigger club in Spain or Italy. We should remember the words of Markus Liebherr when he was asked how he would achieve his ambitions for the club: 'In small steps' he said. He calculated his ambition of returning the club to the Premier League would take five years, after his death Cortese accelerated things and did it in four. I think Markus wouldn't have changed his approach had he lived and would take small steps towards the next goal of consistent European football. After all, small steps is how he built his fortune. So in this respect his daughter is more in line with her father's philosophy than was Cortese and I'm happy with that thanks. So let's get everything in perspective, support our club and all work however we can to help bring about the changes to our game that are so badly needed to restore balance and fairness.
No he was not bankrupting us.. the signings of all the players to long term contracts even MoPo £2 million was the work of a shrewd banker not the profligate chairman you allude to…

Using ML's money he turned a £14 million investment into £200-250 million…this is a completely different indeed unique situation for any club reaching the premier league…he did it shrewdly, that is what you are missing.
i want answers to this asset strip, By that huge heffer of an owner ?
NOT HAPPY JAY ROD will be next mark my words
SAINTS TILL THEY DIE
[quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shareholder[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of.. He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be.. Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this…. I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.[/p][/quote]And how was Cortese going to achieve that? He promised an awful lot to both players and fans. The trouble is he didn't check with the owner that she was going to pay for it. The cost of maintaining such a high value club is enormous and it doesn't much matter how rich you are you still need the branding to be international and the stadium to be large enough to ensure your income streams can support the expenditure - and you need to have enough fans to fill the stadium. That all takes time, far longer than the splashing out on expensive players and their ever increasing wage demands. Cortese was happy to engage in the Premier League's nonsensical policy of allowing otherwise bankrupt clubs to continue spending in the pursuit of European pay days to service the debt. And there lies the real problem. The so called big clubs in the Premiership are all technically insolvent. They have to keep qualifying for the Champions League to service their ludicrous debts. They have to keep buying the best from so called lesser clubs to maintain that process - to create more debt. The Premier League will never do what American sports leagues have done and introduce wage caps and draft systems because that would inevitably lead to a Man Utd or an Arsenal going bust. And the media tycoons wouldn't like that as viewer confidence would fall and they'd lose profits. Then they wouldn't offer enough money to pay the silly wages the big boys pay out so the players would quit the UK for more lucrative climes. So don't blame our current board or our owner. Blame the real culprit - professional football. Be it the Premier League, UEFA, La Liga, FIFA etc it stinks to high heaven and we fans are mugs for putting up with it. While things stay as they are every team outside the mini league of the'top six' will continue to lose their best players. Our problem is we have seven or eight that fit the bill - Swansea have two or three and all of them are likely to go (see their fans outrage at that - it matches ours) and the same is true of any other club, it just depends on how many. And if Koeman does succeed expect more of the same next year. Cortese wanted to do it all in a rush - before likely quitting to go to bigger club in Spain or Italy. We should remember the words of Markus Liebherr when he was asked how he would achieve his ambitions for the club: 'In small steps' he said. He calculated his ambition of returning the club to the Premier League would take five years, after his death Cortese accelerated things and did it in four. I think Markus wouldn't have changed his approach had he lived and would take small steps towards the next goal of consistent European football. After all, small steps is how he built his fortune. So in this respect his daughter is more in line with her father's philosophy than was Cortese and I'm happy with that thanks. So let's get everything in perspective, support our club and all work however we can to help bring about the changes to our game that are so badly needed to restore balance and fairness.[/p][/quote]No he was not bankrupting us.. the signings of all the players to long term contracts even MoPo £2 million was the work of a shrewd banker not the profligate chairman you allude to… Using ML's money he turned a £14 million investment into £200-250 million…this is a completely different indeed unique situation for any club reaching the premier league…he did it shrewdly, that is what you are missing.[/p][/quote]i want answers to this asset strip, By that huge heffer of an owner ? NOT HAPPY JAY ROD will be next mark my words SAINTS TILL THEY DIE willygetaway
  • Score: -7

10:58am Mon 28 Jul 14

OSPREYSAINT says...

Tony in Liberia wrote:
An absolutely brilliant article, a first-rate piece of journalism; possibly the best thing I've read in the Echo for many years. I found myself nodding in agreement with almost every superbly crafted word, and can't see how anyone could find anything to disagree with ....
Nothing to do with you getting a mention in it though? Seriously I agree with you and your previous missive, a breath of fresh air amongst the negativity. Still waiting for that Wind of Change, a couple of ripples but still in the doldrums at the moment.
[quote][p][bold]Tony in Liberia[/bold] wrote: An absolutely brilliant article, a first-rate piece of journalism; possibly the best thing I've read in the Echo for many years. I found myself nodding in agreement with almost every superbly crafted word, and can't see how anyone could find anything to disagree with ....[/p][/quote]Nothing to do with you getting a mention in it though? Seriously I agree with you and your previous missive, a breath of fresh air amongst the negativity. Still waiting for that Wind of Change, a couple of ripples but still in the doldrums at the moment. OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 2

11:01am Mon 28 Jul 14

Bingo from Sholing says...

Now we know why the "Stripes are back". But, where are the fine players to wear them? Window dressing and deceptions by foreign owner, and a chairman, who have no interest in SFC apart from cashing in as soon as possible. I said it in May, and I am still saying it now. The season tickets were offered for sale earlier than normal, as part of a deception.
Now we know why the "Stripes are back". But, where are the fine players to wear them? Window dressing and deceptions by foreign owner, and a chairman, who have no interest in SFC apart from cashing in as soon as possible. I said it in May, and I am still saying it now. The season tickets were offered for sale earlier than normal, as part of a deception. Bingo from Sholing
  • Score: 1

11:02am Mon 28 Jul 14

justaSaintsfan says...

Sports editor Carter's Daily Echo article is good because it highlights that money is the reason behind the recent player departures from St. Marys.

This is really old news, stretching back to many, many years before the Premier League even existed. The clubs with larger stadiums have always had higher incomes than clubs with smaller ground capacity. The Premier League has increased the difference because it led to television making the League global, thus in turn increasing the larger clubs' incomes from their commercial departments, including their huge sponsorship deals. The other factor has been multi billionaire new owners regularly putting untold millions into those clubs.

We already know that all these factors have made it even more difficult for Saints to compete, but I am more interested in the solution to this problem. Our club needs to grow.

I have already stated on another thread the need for Saints to increase the size of St. Marys or build a much larger stadium elsewhere, plus expand the commercial side of the club. SFC is probably a longer distance away from its nearest Premier League neighbour than all other Premier League clubs. Our catchment area has a large population, yet we have a stadium of only around 32,000 capacity. Arsenal's old Highbury stadium had lagged behind other top stadia, so they built a new, bigger stadium. Saints' old Dell stadium, which had a capacity of 32,000 before safety restrictions reduced it, was replaced by 32,000 seater St. Marys. The club did not grow, it merely stagnated. We need a bigger stadium. It would be filled for all the fixtures involving top clubs and if Saints were to play attractive enough football, many of the extra fans would also attend other home matches.

Stadium size is not the only answer to growing our club. SFC is a multi million pound business. Such businesses need to grow, year on year. Ralph Krueger has seen the need to grow the commercial side of the club. It needs to attract increased interest, not only here, but also abroad, particularly in those places where large numbers of people are avid followers of televised Premier League football. Saints should be urgently looking for ways of making SFC their club of choice and exploiting he commercial opportunities. Several of the top clubs are already doing this sort of thing, but Saints could also do it, perhaps better than those clubs. The internet is a resource that Saints should be using in a much bigger way to exploit all markets, home and abroad. Why not start an official worldwide Saints fan club? It could earn Saints a lot of money.

Perhaps other fans have more ideas to help grow the club. Communication is key. SFC should be talking to its fans, getting some constructive ideas. The club is alienating its regular customers at the moment and that has to stop. Enough is enough. Wake up and embrace your fans, Saints. I bet there are plenty of very clever business people amongst Saints fans who have good, sensible ideas to help grow the SFC brand. We are all on the same side and the fans are a free resource. Pick some brains, Saints!!!
Sports editor Carter's Daily Echo article is good because it highlights that money is the reason behind the recent player departures from St. Marys. This is really old news, stretching back to many, many years before the Premier League even existed. The clubs with larger stadiums have always had higher incomes than clubs with smaller ground capacity. The Premier League has increased the difference because it led to television making the League global, thus in turn increasing the larger clubs' incomes from their commercial departments, including their huge sponsorship deals. The other factor has been multi billionaire new owners regularly putting untold millions into those clubs. We already know that all these factors have made it even more difficult for Saints to compete, but I am more interested in the solution to this problem. Our club needs to grow. I have already stated on another thread the need for Saints to increase the size of St. Marys or build a much larger stadium elsewhere, plus expand the commercial side of the club. SFC is probably a longer distance away from its nearest Premier League neighbour than all other Premier League clubs. Our catchment area has a large population, yet we have a stadium of only around 32,000 capacity. Arsenal's old Highbury stadium had lagged behind other top stadia, so they built a new, bigger stadium. Saints' old Dell stadium, which had a capacity of 32,000 before safety restrictions reduced it, was replaced by 32,000 seater St. Marys. The club did not grow, it merely stagnated. We need a bigger stadium. It would be filled for all the fixtures involving top clubs and if Saints were to play attractive enough football, many of the extra fans would also attend other home matches. Stadium size is not the only answer to growing our club. SFC is a multi million pound business. Such businesses need to grow, year on year. Ralph Krueger has seen the need to grow the commercial side of the club. It needs to attract increased interest, not only here, but also abroad, particularly in those places where large numbers of people are avid followers of televised Premier League football. Saints should be urgently looking for ways of making SFC their club of choice and exploiting he commercial opportunities. Several of the top clubs are already doing this sort of thing, but Saints could also do it, perhaps better than those clubs. The internet is a resource that Saints should be using in a much bigger way to exploit all markets, home and abroad. Why not start an official worldwide Saints fan club? It could earn Saints a lot of money. Perhaps other fans have more ideas to help grow the club. Communication is key. SFC should be talking to its fans, getting some constructive ideas. The club is alienating its regular customers at the moment and that has to stop. Enough is enough. Wake up and embrace your fans, Saints. I bet there are plenty of very clever business people amongst Saints fans who have good, sensible ideas to help grow the SFC brand. We are all on the same side and the fans are a free resource. Pick some brains, Saints!!! justaSaintsfan
  • Score: -1

11:03am Mon 28 Jul 14

OSPREYSAINT says...

Rising_Son wrote:
Numpty Girl wrote:
canfordcherry wrote:
I'm surprised you lot haven't been protesting at the ground yet. Demanding answers to what has happened. Whens the R Solent fans forum?
I know we have a lot of banter between us as fans but I do really feel for you guys and the predicament you find yourselves in, especially the lack of info coming from your club.
Unfortunately, most of our fans are happy-clappers and would still be smiling if Les Reed were to sell the whole first team.
And the negheads would still be throwing their toys out of their prams even if we bought better players than those who left.
Wouldn't be Saints if everything was perfect, there would still be a blame culture running if we were Top of the Premier and winning in the Champions League..............
.. dream on.
[quote][p][bold]Rising_Son[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Numpty Girl[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]canfordcherry[/bold] wrote: I'm surprised you lot haven't been protesting at the ground yet. Demanding answers to what has happened. Whens the R Solent fans forum? I know we have a lot of banter between us as fans but I do really feel for you guys and the predicament you find yourselves in, especially the lack of info coming from your club.[/p][/quote]Unfortunately, most of our fans are happy-clappers and would still be smiling if Les Reed were to sell the whole first team.[/p][/quote]And the negheads would still be throwing their toys out of their prams even if we bought better players than those who left.[/p][/quote]Wouldn't be Saints if everything was perfect, there would still be a blame culture running if we were Top of the Premier and winning in the Champions League.............. .. dream on. OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 1

11:03am Mon 28 Jul 14

Numpty Girl says...

Rising_Son wrote:
Numpty Girl wrote:
canfordcherry wrote:
I'm surprised you lot haven't been protesting at the ground yet. Demanding answers to what has happened. Whens the R Solent fans forum?
I know we have a lot of banter between us as fans but I do really feel for you guys and the predicament you find yourselves in, especially the lack of info coming from your club.
Unfortunately, most of our fans are happy-clappers and would still be smiling if Les Reed were to sell the whole first team.
And the negheads would still be throwing their toys out of their prams even if we bought better players than those who left.
There is nothing wrong with being critical if our current Board which has poor communication with its fans.
[quote][p][bold]Rising_Son[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Numpty Girl[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]canfordcherry[/bold] wrote: I'm surprised you lot haven't been protesting at the ground yet. Demanding answers to what has happened. Whens the R Solent fans forum? I know we have a lot of banter between us as fans but I do really feel for you guys and the predicament you find yourselves in, especially the lack of info coming from your club.[/p][/quote]Unfortunately, most of our fans are happy-clappers and would still be smiling if Les Reed were to sell the whole first team.[/p][/quote]And the negheads would still be throwing their toys out of their prams even if we bought better players than those who left.[/p][/quote]There is nothing wrong with being critical if our current Board which has poor communication with its fans. Numpty Girl
  • Score: -7

11:06am Mon 28 Jul 14

Ozmosis says...

Rising_Son wrote:
Ozmosis wrote:
"Premier League cash cow is to blame for mass exodus at Saints this summer". Partially. The fact that the players were concerned and unsettled with the lack of vision, direction and communication is the primary cause of the departures. If the board were as quiet with the players as they have been with the fans then who can blame them?
Or another very plausible reason they left is because they could get more money elsewhere.
I don't deny that. I'm just saying it's not the only cause of the exodus.
[quote][p][bold]Rising_Son[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ozmosis[/bold] wrote: "Premier League cash cow is to blame for mass exodus at Saints this summer". Partially. The fact that the players were concerned and unsettled with the lack of vision, direction and communication is the primary cause of the departures. If the board were as quiet with the players as they have been with the fans then who can blame them?[/p][/quote]Or another very plausible reason they left is because they could get more money elsewhere.[/p][/quote]I don't deny that. I'm just saying it's not the only cause of the exodus. Ozmosis
  • Score: -3

11:21am Mon 28 Jul 14

Seedhouse the Unrepentant says...

St Van Roetford wrote:
Southampton fans have spent the last five years in a glorious bubble in which the rules of football and economics didn’t seem to apply to us. It was constant growth and it was glorious but, more than that, fans of other clubs loved watching us because we did things as they’re supposed to be done: we developed our players and put them in the first team and encouraged them to play attractive, high-tempo football and they did. And more often than not they won. It was like dreamland and we thought it might last forever.

But this summer we’ve been rudely awoken from that dream. No matter how laudable our methods, we’ve been reminded of the world’s greatest and most inescapable obstacle: the gap between the rich and the not-so-rich. The rich have the power to rig the market to protect their little ‘club’ and make competition anything but free and fair. It’s not even capitalism – it’s corporatism.

So our reward for doing things the right way is to have half our team looted by the rich and the powerful and it feels like we’re back to square one. But we’re not. What we need to do is rebuild on the pitch while massively upping the scale of our commercial activities off it so that one day, when the next batch of players comes together like it did last season, we’ll be able to afford to keep them. The dream isn’t over, but if we want to make it real I think we’ll just have to accept it’ll take a lot longer to reach the top than we once thought.
Yes you're dead right about massively upping the scale of our commercial activities. I was saying only this weekend to Mavis and Ethel that we need to make more money but they assured me that they had very cleverly used 20% less material on each of the new shirts they have been sewing to squeeze some extra margins out of the sales. Ok the fans, particularly Bill, will have to squeeze too, otherwise the shirts dont fit but hey, every little helps!

Vewho will of course grow on the back of their shirt sponsorship and in time we might even be able to charge them for it. So much better than just taking millions off the likes of B&Q eh?
[quote][p][bold]St Van Roetford[/bold] wrote: Southampton fans have spent the last five years in a glorious bubble in which the rules of football and economics didn’t seem to apply to us. It was constant growth and it was glorious but, more than that, fans of other clubs loved watching us because we did things as they’re supposed to be done: we developed our players and put them in the first team and encouraged them to play attractive, high-tempo football and they did. And more often than not they won. It was like dreamland and we thought it might last forever. But this summer we’ve been rudely awoken from that dream. No matter how laudable our methods, we’ve been reminded of the world’s greatest and most inescapable obstacle: the gap between the rich and the not-so-rich. The rich have the power to rig the market to protect their little ‘club’ and make competition anything but free and fair. It’s not even capitalism – it’s corporatism. So our reward for doing things the right way is to have half our team looted by the rich and the powerful and it feels like we’re back to square one. But we’re not. What we need to do is rebuild on the pitch while massively upping the scale of our commercial activities off it so that one day, when the next batch of players comes together like it did last season, we’ll be able to afford to keep them. The dream isn’t over, but if we want to make it real I think we’ll just have to accept it’ll take a lot longer to reach the top than we once thought.[/p][/quote]Yes you're dead right about massively upping the scale of our commercial activities. I was saying only this weekend to Mavis and Ethel that we need to make more money but they assured me that they had very cleverly used 20% less material on each of the new shirts they have been sewing to squeeze some extra margins out of the sales. Ok the fans, particularly Bill, will have to squeeze too, otherwise the shirts dont fit but hey, every little helps! Vewho will of course grow on the back of their shirt sponsorship and in time we might even be able to charge them for it. So much better than just taking millions off the likes of B&Q eh? Seedhouse the Unrepentant
  • Score: -8

11:21am Mon 28 Jul 14

invictus says...

The players, manager and Chairman were all content, ambitious and driven until KL decided she wanted a hands on presence and input. We are in this situation because the owner is not unable but unwilling to invest in consolidating Saints as a top 6 team. Cue mass exodus of ambitious personnel - the big clubs became big and get bigger through ambition.
The players, manager and Chairman were all content, ambitious and driven until KL decided she wanted a hands on presence and input. We are in this situation because the owner is not unable but unwilling to invest in consolidating Saints as a top 6 team. Cue mass exodus of ambitious personnel - the big clubs became big and get bigger through ambition. invictus
  • Score: -2

11:30am Mon 28 Jul 14

warrens 76 says...

de Heiligen paard 101 wrote:
warrens 76 wrote:
Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of..

He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be..

Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this….

I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.
warrens have you woken up or is this still one of your dreams?

a) world class team? theres £100mill at least needed!
b) expanded the stadium? several 10`s of millions
c) created a global brand? how? he hadn't been doing it so far, in homage to seed, he signed a deal with aap3 who? then tried to get a deal with a `global brand` but couldn't so had to go back to aap3. lost the deal with adidas. not really the actions of someone trying to create a global brand is it?
c) (again) southern identity and kids? again been here for years and what has he done towards that so far? nothing!

warrens saint NC as you see him and those plans were totally unsustainable, it was a good dream but a dream that would have cost 100`s of millions of someone else`s money a year! for a start we would need to bring in `world class` players each year because even the top teams cant keep their players. it would have meant offering wages of £100k a week and more to try to keep the good players, lukes already earning that! its ok to dream when you aren't footing the bill. I don't know why you cant see that, I don't know why you cant see that getting into the top 4 isnt as easy or cheap as you think. I don't know why you cant see that even if we did get there the players would still want to move. I don't know why you cant understand that KL didn't want to fork out a small fortune to follow someone else`s dream. we weren't as close to the top 4 as some think. spuds spent over £100mill last season and didn't get near it. what makes you think we would?
Wrong….Cortese had already achieved far more than yany other club in such a short time frame…

History has to start somewhere a stadium is no different today than cathedrals were 500 years ago..it is a huge religion to follow your local club, provided you can get in, afford to get in and in todays instant gratification society have something to celebrate….it can be done.
[quote][p][bold]de Heiligen paard 101[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of.. He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be.. Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this…. I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.[/p][/quote]warrens have you woken up or is this still one of your dreams? a) world class team? theres £100mill at least needed! b) expanded the stadium? several 10`s of millions c) created a global brand? how? he hadn't been doing it so far, in homage to seed, he signed a deal with aap3 who? then tried to get a deal with a `global brand` but couldn't so had to go back to aap3. lost the deal with adidas. not really the actions of someone trying to create a global brand is it? c) (again) southern identity and kids? again been here for years and what has he done towards that so far? nothing! warrens saint NC as you see him and those plans were totally unsustainable, it was a good dream but a dream that would have cost 100`s of millions of someone else`s money a year! for a start we would need to bring in `world class` players each year because even the top teams cant keep their players. it would have meant offering wages of £100k a week and more to try to keep the good players, lukes already earning that! its ok to dream when you aren't footing the bill. I don't know why you cant see that, I don't know why you cant see that getting into the top 4 isnt as easy or cheap as you think. I don't know why you cant see that even if we did get there the players would still want to move. I don't know why you cant understand that KL didn't want to fork out a small fortune to follow someone else`s dream. we weren't as close to the top 4 as some think. spuds spent over £100mill last season and didn't get near it. what makes you think we would?[/p][/quote]Wrong….Cortese had already achieved far more than yany other club in such a short time frame… History has to start somewhere a stadium is no different today than cathedrals were 500 years ago..it is a huge religion to follow your local club, provided you can get in, afford to get in and in todays instant gratification society have something to celebrate….it can be done. warrens 76
  • Score: -3

11:30am Mon 28 Jul 14

no left foot says...

Just read the latest article , Cant believe how defeatist it is, we all know its difficult to stop any player leaving if they are determined to go, but is Chambers pushing for this move? or are Saints not being strong enough, when offers are made?
A line has to be drawn somewhere and to hell with the consequences for that player otherwise it will be impossible to hold onto anyone, if that's not already the case?
Just read the latest article , Cant believe how defeatist it is, we all know its difficult to stop any player leaving if they are determined to go, but is Chambers pushing for this move? or are Saints not being strong enough, when offers are made? A line has to be drawn somewhere and to hell with the consequences for that player otherwise it will be impossible to hold onto anyone, if that's not already the case? no left foot
  • Score: -2

11:32am Mon 28 Jul 14

jls217 says...

de Heiligen paard 101 wrote:
ecuk268 wrote:
BarnetSaint wrote:
Excellent article
Yes the premier league does stink and if a club like Saints has the audacity to try and break their cosy cartel then they will be mercilessly torn apart and pillaged.
Of course the disgraceful antics of some of our players does not help .
But honestly, that process is made simple when you have complete and utter buffoons at the helm like we have.
I would honestly fancy my chances with the ice hockey bloke and the charlton failure reed.
Do us a favour kat, please sell and move on, you've made your millions.
See ya.
Be careful what you wish for.

Let's see what the situation is at the end of August when the transfer window closes.

Maybe a case of better the devil you know. If Ms Leibherr does sell the club, the new owner could be worse. Look what happened to Cardiff and Blackburn.
and hull, and Coventry, and leeds, and poopey!

all those clubs got new owners, some the fans wanted, and look at them now!

has anyone thought that selling a young full back, who may well be full of potential (but not every player reaches their potential), might be the decision of the manager?
Ronnie was a true world class defender and it wouldn't take him long to see real class in a defensive player. perhaps Ronnie doesn't think chambers is up to it, has he played him much in the friendlies? maybe just maybe Ronnie sees clyne as the first choice RB then sees cork as a good back up, hes played well there before, and see a need to have chambers at the club. if arsenil are willing to pay £16mill for our second choice full back when we have really good cover in that position shouldn't we rip their arm off to take it.
personally I rate chambers but have always said I think clyne is a better player. perhaps chambers isn't happy to sit on the bench and already sees himself as a world class defender who `should` be in the champs league and `should` be earning £100k a week like luke?
Difficult to argue against Clyne - an underestimated force in our club. If there's abetter RB in the PL would someone point him out please. Best not let the top five hear that too loudly though.
I would guess that Rambo has factored that in and also, long ago, realized like the slow learners like me are now learning that if a player wants to go and you get good money for him, wish him luck and look for a replacement.
[quote][p][bold]de Heiligen paard 101[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ecuk268[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BarnetSaint[/bold] wrote: Excellent article Yes the premier league does stink and if a club like Saints has the audacity to try and break their cosy cartel then they will be mercilessly torn apart and pillaged. Of course the disgraceful antics of some of our players does not help . But honestly, that process is made simple when you have complete and utter buffoons at the helm like we have. I would honestly fancy my chances with the ice hockey bloke and the charlton failure reed. Do us a favour kat, please sell and move on, you've made your millions. See ya.[/p][/quote]Be careful what you wish for. Let's see what the situation is at the end of August when the transfer window closes. Maybe a case of better the devil you know. If Ms Leibherr does sell the club, the new owner could be worse. Look what happened to Cardiff and Blackburn.[/p][/quote]and hull, and Coventry, and leeds, and poopey! all those clubs got new owners, some the fans wanted, and look at them now! has anyone thought that selling a young full back, who may well be full of potential (but not every player reaches their potential), might be the decision of the manager? Ronnie was a true world class defender and it wouldn't take him long to see real class in a defensive player. perhaps Ronnie doesn't think chambers is up to it, has he played him much in the friendlies? maybe just maybe Ronnie sees clyne as the first choice RB then sees cork as a good back up, hes played well there before, and see a need to have chambers at the club. if arsenil are willing to pay £16mill for our second choice full back when we have really good cover in that position shouldn't we rip their arm off to take it. personally I rate chambers but have always said I think clyne is a better player. perhaps chambers isn't happy to sit on the bench and already sees himself as a world class defender who `should` be in the champs league and `should` be earning £100k a week like luke?[/p][/quote]Difficult to argue against Clyne - an underestimated force in our club. If there's abetter RB in the PL would someone point him out please. Best not let the top five hear that too loudly though. I would guess that Rambo has factored that in and also, long ago, realized like the slow learners like me are now learning that if a player wants to go and you get good money for him, wish him luck and look for a replacement. jls217
  • Score: 4

11:32am Mon 28 Jul 14

sledgerite says...

despite all the negativety going on lets make sure we support the guys wearing the shirt both home and away
despite all the negativety going on lets make sure we support the guys wearing the shirt both home and away sledgerite
  • Score: 5

11:33am Mon 28 Jul 14

Dave Juson says...

There are major considerations missing from Mr Carter’s latest effort: where did all the players we are selling at enormous profit come from?
How come Southampton Football Club appears to excel when it comes to recruiting more talented players at lower cost than most if not all other Premiership club?
Why is it that the Saints’ Academy has proved so much more fecund than its rivals?
Is there any reason to suppose that all those unsung people behind the scenes at St Mary’s, coaching kids and scouting prospective players, are leaving, or losing their touch?
Come on Carter, tell us, you are the expert after all.
And, for the record, I am not angry, just sick and tired of the Echo’s persistence in failing to give its readers anything approaching a professional perspective on stories relating to Southampton FC.
There are major considerations missing from Mr Carter’s latest effort: where did all the players we are selling at enormous profit come from? How come Southampton Football Club appears to excel when it comes to recruiting more talented players at lower cost than most if not all other Premiership club? Why is it that the Saints’ Academy has proved so much more fecund than its rivals? Is there any reason to suppose that all those unsung people behind the scenes at St Mary’s, coaching kids and scouting prospective players, are leaving, or losing their touch? Come on Carter, tell us, you are the expert after all. And, for the record, I am not angry, just sick and tired of the Echo’s persistence in failing to give its readers anything approaching a professional perspective on stories relating to Southampton FC. Dave Juson
  • Score: 3

11:46am Mon 28 Jul 14

Shareholder says...

warrens 76 wrote:
Shareholder wrote:
warrens 76 wrote:
Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of..

He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be..

Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this….

I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.
And how was Cortese going to achieve that? He promised an awful lot to both players and fans. The trouble is he didn't check with the owner that she was going to pay for it. The cost of maintaining such a high value club is enormous and it doesn't much matter how rich you are you still need the branding to be international and the stadium to be large enough to ensure your income streams can support the expenditure - and you need to have enough fans to fill the stadium. That all takes time, far longer than the splashing out on expensive players and their ever increasing wage demands. Cortese was happy to engage in the Premier League's nonsensical policy of allowing otherwise bankrupt clubs to continue spending in the pursuit of European pay days to service the debt. And there lies the real problem. The so called big clubs in the Premiership are all technically insolvent. They have to keep qualifying for the Champions League to service their ludicrous debts. They have to keep buying the best from so called lesser clubs to maintain that process - to create more debt. The Premier League will never do what American sports leagues have done and introduce wage caps and draft systems because that would inevitably lead to a Man Utd or an Arsenal going bust. And the media tycoons wouldn't like that as viewer confidence would fall and they'd lose profits. Then they wouldn't offer enough money to pay the silly wages the big boys pay out so the players would quit the UK for more lucrative climes. So don't blame our current board or our owner. Blame the real culprit - professional football. Be it the Premier League, UEFA, La Liga, FIFA etc it stinks to high heaven and we fans are mugs for putting up with it. While things stay as they are every team outside the mini league of the'top six' will continue to lose their best players. Our problem is we have seven or eight that fit the bill - Swansea have two or three and all of them are likely to go (see their fans outrage at that - it matches ours) and the same is true of any other club, it just depends on how many. And if Koeman does succeed expect more of the same next year. Cortese wanted to do it all in a rush - before likely quitting to go to bigger club in Spain or Italy. We should remember the words of Markus Liebherr when he was asked how he would achieve his ambitions for the club: 'In small steps' he said. He calculated his ambition of returning the club to the Premier League would take five years, after his death Cortese accelerated things and did it in four. I think Markus wouldn't have changed his approach had he lived and would take small steps towards the next goal of consistent European football. After all, small steps is how he built his fortune. So in this respect his daughter is more in line with her father's philosophy than was Cortese and I'm happy with that thanks. So let's get everything in perspective, support our club and all work however we can to help bring about the changes to our game that are so badly needed to restore balance and fairness.
No he was not bankrupting us.. the signings of all the players to long term contracts even MoPo £2 million was the work of a shrewd banker not the profligate chairman you allude to…

Using ML's money he turned a £14 million investment into £200-250 million…this is a completely different indeed unique situation for any club reaching the premier league…he did it shrewdly, that is what you are missing.
I've missed nothing. Firstly the Liebherr outlay was more like £80m once you take into account the initial purchase, the £33m invested after that which was converted to shareholdings and the£30m+ for Staplewood. Your estimate of the club's current worth is only that- an estimate. Cortese promised things to players and fans based on the owner being prepared to pump in many millions to fund his ambitions. Those promises were not based on a sound business base which would earn the money to support them. The owner has the right to run her business how she sees fit and she clearly wants the club to have more earning potential. How do you think Cortese was going to fund his plans? I don't personally think there's much astute about a plan that depends so much on huge cash injections from the owner. That begs the question of how you service that debt. Or do you think the owner should just keep pumping the money in? That way lies insolvency. It is certainly unrealistic. And anyway, why on earth should any of us trust a banker given their recent history?
[quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shareholder[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of.. He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be.. Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this…. I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.[/p][/quote]And how was Cortese going to achieve that? He promised an awful lot to both players and fans. The trouble is he didn't check with the owner that she was going to pay for it. The cost of maintaining such a high value club is enormous and it doesn't much matter how rich you are you still need the branding to be international and the stadium to be large enough to ensure your income streams can support the expenditure - and you need to have enough fans to fill the stadium. That all takes time, far longer than the splashing out on expensive players and their ever increasing wage demands. Cortese was happy to engage in the Premier League's nonsensical policy of allowing otherwise bankrupt clubs to continue spending in the pursuit of European pay days to service the debt. And there lies the real problem. The so called big clubs in the Premiership are all technically insolvent. They have to keep qualifying for the Champions League to service their ludicrous debts. They have to keep buying the best from so called lesser clubs to maintain that process - to create more debt. The Premier League will never do what American sports leagues have done and introduce wage caps and draft systems because that would inevitably lead to a Man Utd or an Arsenal going bust. And the media tycoons wouldn't like that as viewer confidence would fall and they'd lose profits. Then they wouldn't offer enough money to pay the silly wages the big boys pay out so the players would quit the UK for more lucrative climes. So don't blame our current board or our owner. Blame the real culprit - professional football. Be it the Premier League, UEFA, La Liga, FIFA etc it stinks to high heaven and we fans are mugs for putting up with it. While things stay as they are every team outside the mini league of the'top six' will continue to lose their best players. Our problem is we have seven or eight that fit the bill - Swansea have two or three and all of them are likely to go (see their fans outrage at that - it matches ours) and the same is true of any other club, it just depends on how many. And if Koeman does succeed expect more of the same next year. Cortese wanted to do it all in a rush - before likely quitting to go to bigger club in Spain or Italy. We should remember the words of Markus Liebherr when he was asked how he would achieve his ambitions for the club: 'In small steps' he said. He calculated his ambition of returning the club to the Premier League would take five years, after his death Cortese accelerated things and did it in four. I think Markus wouldn't have changed his approach had he lived and would take small steps towards the next goal of consistent European football. After all, small steps is how he built his fortune. So in this respect his daughter is more in line with her father's philosophy than was Cortese and I'm happy with that thanks. So let's get everything in perspective, support our club and all work however we can to help bring about the changes to our game that are so badly needed to restore balance and fairness.[/p][/quote]No he was not bankrupting us.. the signings of all the players to long term contracts even MoPo £2 million was the work of a shrewd banker not the profligate chairman you allude to… Using ML's money he turned a £14 million investment into £200-250 million…this is a completely different indeed unique situation for any club reaching the premier league…he did it shrewdly, that is what you are missing.[/p][/quote]I've missed nothing. Firstly the Liebherr outlay was more like £80m once you take into account the initial purchase, the £33m invested after that which was converted to shareholdings and the£30m+ for Staplewood. Your estimate of the club's current worth is only that- an estimate. Cortese promised things to players and fans based on the owner being prepared to pump in many millions to fund his ambitions. Those promises were not based on a sound business base which would earn the money to support them. The owner has the right to run her business how she sees fit and she clearly wants the club to have more earning potential. How do you think Cortese was going to fund his plans? I don't personally think there's much astute about a plan that depends so much on huge cash injections from the owner. That begs the question of how you service that debt. Or do you think the owner should just keep pumping the money in? That way lies insolvency. It is certainly unrealistic. And anyway, why on earth should any of us trust a banker given their recent history? Shareholder
  • Score: 8

11:47am Mon 28 Jul 14

canfordcherry says...

willygetaway wrote:
warrens 76 wrote:
Shareholder wrote:
warrens 76 wrote:
Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of..

He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be..

Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this….

I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.
And how was Cortese going to achieve that? He promised an awful lot to both players and fans. The trouble is he didn't check with the owner that she was going to pay for it. The cost of maintaining such a high value club is enormous and it doesn't much matter how rich you are you still need the branding to be international and the stadium to be large enough to ensure your income streams can support the expenditure - and you need to have enough fans to fill the stadium. That all takes time, far longer than the splashing out on expensive players and their ever increasing wage demands. Cortese was happy to engage in the Premier League's nonsensical policy of allowing otherwise bankrupt clubs to continue spending in the pursuit of European pay days to service the debt. And there lies the real problem. The so called big clubs in the Premiership are all technically insolvent. They have to keep qualifying for the Champions League to service their ludicrous debts. They have to keep buying the best from so called lesser clubs to maintain that process - to create more debt. The Premier League will never do what American sports leagues have done and introduce wage caps and draft systems because that would inevitably lead to a Man Utd or an Arsenal going bust. And the media tycoons wouldn't like that as viewer confidence would fall and they'd lose profits. Then they wouldn't offer enough money to pay the silly wages the big boys pay out so the players would quit the UK for more lucrative climes. So don't blame our current board or our owner. Blame the real culprit - professional football. Be it the Premier League, UEFA, La Liga, FIFA etc it stinks to high heaven and we fans are mugs for putting up with it. While things stay as they are every team outside the mini league of the'top six' will continue to lose their best players. Our problem is we have seven or eight that fit the bill - Swansea have two or three and all of them are likely to go (see their fans outrage at that - it matches ours) and the same is true of any other club, it just depends on how many. And if Koeman does succeed expect more of the same next year. Cortese wanted to do it all in a rush - before likely quitting to go to bigger club in Spain or Italy. We should remember the words of Markus Liebherr when he was asked how he would achieve his ambitions for the club: 'In small steps' he said. He calculated his ambition of returning the club to the Premier League would take five years, after his death Cortese accelerated things and did it in four. I think Markus wouldn't have changed his approach had he lived and would take small steps towards the next goal of consistent European football. After all, small steps is how he built his fortune. So in this respect his daughter is more in line with her father's philosophy than was Cortese and I'm happy with that thanks. So let's get everything in perspective, support our club and all work however we can to help bring about the changes to our game that are so badly needed to restore balance and fairness.
No he was not bankrupting us.. the signings of all the players to long term contracts even MoPo £2 million was the work of a shrewd banker not the profligate chairman you allude to…

Using ML's money he turned a £14 million investment into £200-250 million…this is a completely different indeed unique situation for any club reaching the premier league…he did it shrewdly, that is what you are missing.
i want answers to this asset strip, By that huge heffer of an owner ?
NOT HAPPY JAY ROD will be next mark my words
SAINTS TILL THEY DIE
Any idea how much they would be looking to reclaim in 'Loans' over the seasons, if they are looking to sell and run?
Surely there would be something left from your player sales to build a squad again, or have they invested very heavily?
[quote][p][bold]willygetaway[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shareholder[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of.. He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be.. Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this…. I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.[/p][/quote]And how was Cortese going to achieve that? He promised an awful lot to both players and fans. The trouble is he didn't check with the owner that she was going to pay for it. The cost of maintaining such a high value club is enormous and it doesn't much matter how rich you are you still need the branding to be international and the stadium to be large enough to ensure your income streams can support the expenditure - and you need to have enough fans to fill the stadium. That all takes time, far longer than the splashing out on expensive players and their ever increasing wage demands. Cortese was happy to engage in the Premier League's nonsensical policy of allowing otherwise bankrupt clubs to continue spending in the pursuit of European pay days to service the debt. And there lies the real problem. The so called big clubs in the Premiership are all technically insolvent. They have to keep qualifying for the Champions League to service their ludicrous debts. They have to keep buying the best from so called lesser clubs to maintain that process - to create more debt. The Premier League will never do what American sports leagues have done and introduce wage caps and draft systems because that would inevitably lead to a Man Utd or an Arsenal going bust. And the media tycoons wouldn't like that as viewer confidence would fall and they'd lose profits. Then they wouldn't offer enough money to pay the silly wages the big boys pay out so the players would quit the UK for more lucrative climes. So don't blame our current board or our owner. Blame the real culprit - professional football. Be it the Premier League, UEFA, La Liga, FIFA etc it stinks to high heaven and we fans are mugs for putting up with it. While things stay as they are every team outside the mini league of the'top six' will continue to lose their best players. Our problem is we have seven or eight that fit the bill - Swansea have two or three and all of them are likely to go (see their fans outrage at that - it matches ours) and the same is true of any other club, it just depends on how many. And if Koeman does succeed expect more of the same next year. Cortese wanted to do it all in a rush - before likely quitting to go to bigger club in Spain or Italy. We should remember the words of Markus Liebherr when he was asked how he would achieve his ambitions for the club: 'In small steps' he said. He calculated his ambition of returning the club to the Premier League would take five years, after his death Cortese accelerated things and did it in four. I think Markus wouldn't have changed his approach had he lived and would take small steps towards the next goal of consistent European football. After all, small steps is how he built his fortune. So in this respect his daughter is more in line with her father's philosophy than was Cortese and I'm happy with that thanks. So let's get everything in perspective, support our club and all work however we can to help bring about the changes to our game that are so badly needed to restore balance and fairness.[/p][/quote]No he was not bankrupting us.. the signings of all the players to long term contracts even MoPo £2 million was the work of a shrewd banker not the profligate chairman you allude to… Using ML's money he turned a £14 million investment into £200-250 million…this is a completely different indeed unique situation for any club reaching the premier league…he did it shrewdly, that is what you are missing.[/p][/quote]i want answers to this asset strip, By that huge heffer of an owner ? NOT HAPPY JAY ROD will be next mark my words SAINTS TILL THEY DIE[/p][/quote]Any idea how much they would be looking to reclaim in 'Loans' over the seasons, if they are looking to sell and run? Surely there would be something left from your player sales to build a squad again, or have they invested very heavily? canfordcherry
  • Score: 1

11:55am Mon 28 Jul 14

miltonarcher says...

New stadium? We dont fill SMS
New stadium? We dont fill SMS miltonarcher
  • Score: 5

12:07pm Mon 28 Jul 14

warrens 76 says...

Shareholder wrote:
warrens 76 wrote:
Shareholder wrote:
warrens 76 wrote:
Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of..

He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be..

Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this….

I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.
And how was Cortese going to achieve that? He promised an awful lot to both players and fans. The trouble is he didn't check with the owner that she was going to pay for it. The cost of maintaining such a high value club is enormous and it doesn't much matter how rich you are you still need the branding to be international and the stadium to be large enough to ensure your income streams can support the expenditure - and you need to have enough fans to fill the stadium. That all takes time, far longer than the splashing out on expensive players and their ever increasing wage demands. Cortese was happy to engage in the Premier League's nonsensical policy of allowing otherwise bankrupt clubs to continue spending in the pursuit of European pay days to service the debt. And there lies the real problem. The so called big clubs in the Premiership are all technically insolvent. They have to keep qualifying for the Champions League to service their ludicrous debts. They have to keep buying the best from so called lesser clubs to maintain that process - to create more debt. The Premier League will never do what American sports leagues have done and introduce wage caps and draft systems because that would inevitably lead to a Man Utd or an Arsenal going bust. And the media tycoons wouldn't like that as viewer confidence would fall and they'd lose profits. Then they wouldn't offer enough money to pay the silly wages the big boys pay out so the players would quit the UK for more lucrative climes. So don't blame our current board or our owner. Blame the real culprit - professional football. Be it the Premier League, UEFA, La Liga, FIFA etc it stinks to high heaven and we fans are mugs for putting up with it. While things stay as they are every team outside the mini league of the'top six' will continue to lose their best players. Our problem is we have seven or eight that fit the bill - Swansea have two or three and all of them are likely to go (see their fans outrage at that - it matches ours) and the same is true of any other club, it just depends on how many. And if Koeman does succeed expect more of the same next year. Cortese wanted to do it all in a rush - before likely quitting to go to bigger club in Spain or Italy. We should remember the words of Markus Liebherr when he was asked how he would achieve his ambitions for the club: 'In small steps' he said. He calculated his ambition of returning the club to the Premier League would take five years, after his death Cortese accelerated things and did it in four. I think Markus wouldn't have changed his approach had he lived and would take small steps towards the next goal of consistent European football. After all, small steps is how he built his fortune. So in this respect his daughter is more in line with her father's philosophy than was Cortese and I'm happy with that thanks. So let's get everything in perspective, support our club and all work however we can to help bring about the changes to our game that are so badly needed to restore balance and fairness.
No he was not bankrupting us.. the signings of all the players to long term contracts even MoPo £2 million was the work of a shrewd banker not the profligate chairman you allude to…

Using ML's money he turned a £14 million investment into £200-250 million…this is a completely different indeed unique situation for any club reaching the premier league…he did it shrewdly, that is what you are missing.
I've missed nothing. Firstly the Liebherr outlay was more like £80m once you take into account the initial purchase, the £33m invested after that which was converted to shareholdings and the£30m+ for Staplewood. Your estimate of the club's current worth is only that- an estimate. Cortese promised things to players and fans based on the owner being prepared to pump in many millions to fund his ambitions. Those promises were not based on a sound business base which would earn the money to support them. The owner has the right to run her business how she sees fit and she clearly wants the club to have more earning potential. How do you think Cortese was going to fund his plans? I don't personally think there's much astute about a plan that depends so much on huge cash injections from the owner. That begs the question of how you service that debt. Or do you think the owner should just keep pumping the money in? That way lies insolvency. It is certainly unrealistic. And anyway, why on earth should any of us trust a banker given their recent history?
Looking at the value we have achieved for players so far plus tv revenues you question him..glad you do not run my business's.
[quote][p][bold]Shareholder[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shareholder[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of.. He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be.. Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this…. I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.[/p][/quote]And how was Cortese going to achieve that? He promised an awful lot to both players and fans. The trouble is he didn't check with the owner that she was going to pay for it. The cost of maintaining such a high value club is enormous and it doesn't much matter how rich you are you still need the branding to be international and the stadium to be large enough to ensure your income streams can support the expenditure - and you need to have enough fans to fill the stadium. That all takes time, far longer than the splashing out on expensive players and their ever increasing wage demands. Cortese was happy to engage in the Premier League's nonsensical policy of allowing otherwise bankrupt clubs to continue spending in the pursuit of European pay days to service the debt. And there lies the real problem. The so called big clubs in the Premiership are all technically insolvent. They have to keep qualifying for the Champions League to service their ludicrous debts. They have to keep buying the best from so called lesser clubs to maintain that process - to create more debt. The Premier League will never do what American sports leagues have done and introduce wage caps and draft systems because that would inevitably lead to a Man Utd or an Arsenal going bust. And the media tycoons wouldn't like that as viewer confidence would fall and they'd lose profits. Then they wouldn't offer enough money to pay the silly wages the big boys pay out so the players would quit the UK for more lucrative climes. So don't blame our current board or our owner. Blame the real culprit - professional football. Be it the Premier League, UEFA, La Liga, FIFA etc it stinks to high heaven and we fans are mugs for putting up with it. While things stay as they are every team outside the mini league of the'top six' will continue to lose their best players. Our problem is we have seven or eight that fit the bill - Swansea have two or three and all of them are likely to go (see their fans outrage at that - it matches ours) and the same is true of any other club, it just depends on how many. And if Koeman does succeed expect more of the same next year. Cortese wanted to do it all in a rush - before likely quitting to go to bigger club in Spain or Italy. We should remember the words of Markus Liebherr when he was asked how he would achieve his ambitions for the club: 'In small steps' he said. He calculated his ambition of returning the club to the Premier League would take five years, after his death Cortese accelerated things and did it in four. I think Markus wouldn't have changed his approach had he lived and would take small steps towards the next goal of consistent European football. After all, small steps is how he built his fortune. So in this respect his daughter is more in line with her father's philosophy than was Cortese and I'm happy with that thanks. So let's get everything in perspective, support our club and all work however we can to help bring about the changes to our game that are so badly needed to restore balance and fairness.[/p][/quote]No he was not bankrupting us.. the signings of all the players to long term contracts even MoPo £2 million was the work of a shrewd banker not the profligate chairman you allude to… Using ML's money he turned a £14 million investment into £200-250 million…this is a completely different indeed unique situation for any club reaching the premier league…he did it shrewdly, that is what you are missing.[/p][/quote]I've missed nothing. Firstly the Liebherr outlay was more like £80m once you take into account the initial purchase, the £33m invested after that which was converted to shareholdings and the£30m+ for Staplewood. Your estimate of the club's current worth is only that- an estimate. Cortese promised things to players and fans based on the owner being prepared to pump in many millions to fund his ambitions. Those promises were not based on a sound business base which would earn the money to support them. The owner has the right to run her business how she sees fit and she clearly wants the club to have more earning potential. How do you think Cortese was going to fund his plans? I don't personally think there's much astute about a plan that depends so much on huge cash injections from the owner. That begs the question of how you service that debt. Or do you think the owner should just keep pumping the money in? That way lies insolvency. It is certainly unrealistic. And anyway, why on earth should any of us trust a banker given their recent history?[/p][/quote]Looking at the value we have achieved for players so far plus tv revenues you question him..glad you do not run my business's. warrens 76
  • Score: -8

12:08pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Mosschops says...

Ozmosis wrote:
"Premier League cash cow is to blame for mass exodus at Saints this summer". Partially. The fact that the players were concerned and unsettled with the lack of vision, direction and communication is the primary cause of the departures. If the board were as quiet with the players as they have been with the fans then who can blame them?
IF! A big IF.
[quote][p][bold]Ozmosis[/bold] wrote: "Premier League cash cow is to blame for mass exodus at Saints this summer". Partially. The fact that the players were concerned and unsettled with the lack of vision, direction and communication is the primary cause of the departures. If the board were as quiet with the players as they have been with the fans then who can blame them?[/p][/quote]IF! A big IF. Mosschops
  • Score: 0

12:09pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Mush On The Beach says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
saint bartley wrote:
Just pondering what our squad situation would be if Cortese was still here...
Hypothetical now, but probably we would have a few unhappy players staying on in fear of their lives perhaps, as soon as NC went, the fear factor went with it.
The fear factor certainly disappeared from Old Trafford after Fergie left his post. I’d like to think NC would have told these vulture tyrant clubs to do one but in truth money talks and players walk.
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]saint bartley[/bold] wrote: Just pondering what our squad situation would be if Cortese was still here...[/p][/quote]Hypothetical now, but probably we would have a few unhappy players staying on in fear of their lives perhaps, as soon as NC went, the fear factor went with it.[/p][/quote]The fear factor certainly disappeared from Old Trafford after Fergie left his post. I’d like to think NC would have told these vulture tyrant clubs to do one but in truth money talks and players walk. Mush On The Beach
  • Score: 6

12:12pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Mush On The Beach says...

Tony in Liberia wrote:
An absolutely brilliant article, a first-rate piece of journalism; possibly the best thing I've read in the Echo for many years. I found myself nodding in agreement with almost every superbly crafted word, and can't see how anyone could find anything to disagree with ....
Who is this new Echo hack? I’ve heard that all journos are old soaks and their working day ends when the pubs open, what time is last orders in Rwanda?
[quote][p][bold]Tony in Liberia[/bold] wrote: An absolutely brilliant article, a first-rate piece of journalism; possibly the best thing I've read in the Echo for many years. I found myself nodding in agreement with almost every superbly crafted word, and can't see how anyone could find anything to disagree with ....[/p][/quote]Who is this new Echo hack? I’ve heard that all journos are old soaks and their working day ends when the pubs open, what time is last orders in Rwanda? Mush On The Beach
  • Score: 2

12:15pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Mosschops says...

Great headline. Shame it is nicked from when Callie Thistle beat Celtic and isn't really fitting to the proposed sale of Chambers. Controversial rather than atrocious. The same applies as it has for weeks, as to whether this is a disaster or a new bright dawn depends solely on who we bring in. Here's hoping for positive news on that front this week.
Great headline. Shame it is nicked from when Callie Thistle beat Celtic and isn't really fitting to the proposed sale of Chambers. Controversial rather than atrocious. The same applies as it has for weeks, as to whether this is a disaster or a new bright dawn depends solely on who we bring in. Here's hoping for positive news on that front this week. Mosschops
  • Score: 2

12:16pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Mosschops says...

north wales saint 2 wrote:
I will repeat a similar line I said previously.Why were they all so happy signing long term contracts recently and then following the departure of Cortese then M P desert like rats leaving a sinking ship?. I still however have faith in the Koeman brothers and hope it is justified.
Because they had a great season and a big club wanted them.
[quote][p][bold]north wales saint 2[/bold] wrote: I will repeat a similar line I said previously.Why were they all so happy signing long term contracts recently and then following the departure of Cortese then M P desert like rats leaving a sinking ship?. I still however have faith in the Koeman brothers and hope it is justified.[/p][/quote]Because they had a great season and a big club wanted them. Mosschops
  • Score: 2

12:21pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Crossley Place Saint says...

Shareholder wrote:
warrens 76 wrote:
Shareholder wrote:
warrens 76 wrote:
Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of..

He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be..

Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this….

I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.
And how was Cortese going to achieve that? He promised an awful lot to both players and fans. The trouble is he didn't check with the owner that she was going to pay for it. The cost of maintaining such a high value club is enormous and it doesn't much matter how rich you are you still need the branding to be international and the stadium to be large enough to ensure your income streams can support the expenditure - and you need to have enough fans to fill the stadium. That all takes time, far longer than the splashing out on expensive players and their ever increasing wage demands. Cortese was happy to engage in the Premier League's nonsensical policy of allowing otherwise bankrupt clubs to continue spending in the pursuit of European pay days to service the debt. And there lies the real problem. The so called big clubs in the Premiership are all technically insolvent. They have to keep qualifying for the Champions League to service their ludicrous debts. They have to keep buying the best from so called lesser clubs to maintain that process - to create more debt. The Premier League will never do what American sports leagues have done and introduce wage caps and draft systems because that would inevitably lead to a Man Utd or an Arsenal going bust. And the media tycoons wouldn't like that as viewer confidence would fall and they'd lose profits. Then they wouldn't offer enough money to pay the silly wages the big boys pay out so the players would quit the UK for more lucrative climes. So don't blame our current board or our owner. Blame the real culprit - professional football. Be it the Premier League, UEFA, La Liga, FIFA etc it stinks to high heaven and we fans are mugs for putting up with it. While things stay as they are every team outside the mini league of the'top six' will continue to lose their best players. Our problem is we have seven or eight that fit the bill - Swansea have two or three and all of them are likely to go (see their fans outrage at that - it matches ours) and the same is true of any other club, it just depends on how many. And if Koeman does succeed expect more of the same next year. Cortese wanted to do it all in a rush - before likely quitting to go to bigger club in Spain or Italy. We should remember the words of Markus Liebherr when he was asked how he would achieve his ambitions for the club: 'In small steps' he said. He calculated his ambition of returning the club to the Premier League would take five years, after his death Cortese accelerated things and did it in four. I think Markus wouldn't have changed his approach had he lived and would take small steps towards the next goal of consistent European football. After all, small steps is how he built his fortune. So in this respect his daughter is more in line with her father's philosophy than was Cortese and I'm happy with that thanks. So let's get everything in perspective, support our club and all work however we can to help bring about the changes to our game that are so badly needed to restore balance and fairness.
No he was not bankrupting us.. the signings of all the players to long term contracts even MoPo £2 million was the work of a shrewd banker not the profligate chairman you allude to…

Using ML's money he turned a £14 million investment into £200-250 million…this is a completely different indeed unique situation for any club reaching the premier league…he did it shrewdly, that is what you are missing.
I've missed nothing. Firstly the Liebherr outlay was more like £80m once you take into account the initial purchase, the £33m invested after that which was converted to shareholdings and the£30m+ for Staplewood. Your estimate of the club's current worth is only that- an estimate. Cortese promised things to players and fans based on the owner being prepared to pump in many millions to fund his ambitions. Those promises were not based on a sound business base which would earn the money to support them. The owner has the right to run her business how she sees fit and she clearly wants the club to have more earning potential. How do you think Cortese was going to fund his plans? I don't personally think there's much astute about a plan that depends so much on huge cash injections from the owner. That begs the question of how you service that debt. Or do you think the owner should just keep pumping the money in? That way lies insolvency. It is certainly unrealistic. And anyway, why on earth should any of us trust a banker given their recent history?
That's very well-informed and carefully argued post about the scale of the Liebherr financial investment. Which makes me wonder why you use "shareholder" as your login name. Our club, of course, has only one shareholder, namely Katharina Liebherr. Are you somebody with some inside knowledge, tasked with defending her on here?
[quote][p][bold]Shareholder[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shareholder[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of.. He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be.. Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this…. I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.[/p][/quote]And how was Cortese going to achieve that? He promised an awful lot to both players and fans. The trouble is he didn't check with the owner that she was going to pay for it. The cost of maintaining such a high value club is enormous and it doesn't much matter how rich you are you still need the branding to be international and the stadium to be large enough to ensure your income streams can support the expenditure - and you need to have enough fans to fill the stadium. That all takes time, far longer than the splashing out on expensive players and their ever increasing wage demands. Cortese was happy to engage in the Premier League's nonsensical policy of allowing otherwise bankrupt clubs to continue spending in the pursuit of European pay days to service the debt. And there lies the real problem. The so called big clubs in the Premiership are all technically insolvent. They have to keep qualifying for the Champions League to service their ludicrous debts. They have to keep buying the best from so called lesser clubs to maintain that process - to create more debt. The Premier League will never do what American sports leagues have done and introduce wage caps and draft systems because that would inevitably lead to a Man Utd or an Arsenal going bust. And the media tycoons wouldn't like that as viewer confidence would fall and they'd lose profits. Then they wouldn't offer enough money to pay the silly wages the big boys pay out so the players would quit the UK for more lucrative climes. So don't blame our current board or our owner. Blame the real culprit - professional football. Be it the Premier League, UEFA, La Liga, FIFA etc it stinks to high heaven and we fans are mugs for putting up with it. While things stay as they are every team outside the mini league of the'top six' will continue to lose their best players. Our problem is we have seven or eight that fit the bill - Swansea have two or three and all of them are likely to go (see their fans outrage at that - it matches ours) and the same is true of any other club, it just depends on how many. And if Koeman does succeed expect more of the same next year. Cortese wanted to do it all in a rush - before likely quitting to go to bigger club in Spain or Italy. We should remember the words of Markus Liebherr when he was asked how he would achieve his ambitions for the club: 'In small steps' he said. He calculated his ambition of returning the club to the Premier League would take five years, after his death Cortese accelerated things and did it in four. I think Markus wouldn't have changed his approach had he lived and would take small steps towards the next goal of consistent European football. After all, small steps is how he built his fortune. So in this respect his daughter is more in line with her father's philosophy than was Cortese and I'm happy with that thanks. So let's get everything in perspective, support our club and all work however we can to help bring about the changes to our game that are so badly needed to restore balance and fairness.[/p][/quote]No he was not bankrupting us.. the signings of all the players to long term contracts even MoPo £2 million was the work of a shrewd banker not the profligate chairman you allude to… Using ML's money he turned a £14 million investment into £200-250 million…this is a completely different indeed unique situation for any club reaching the premier league…he did it shrewdly, that is what you are missing.[/p][/quote]I've missed nothing. Firstly the Liebherr outlay was more like £80m once you take into account the initial purchase, the £33m invested after that which was converted to shareholdings and the£30m+ for Staplewood. Your estimate of the club's current worth is only that- an estimate. Cortese promised things to players and fans based on the owner being prepared to pump in many millions to fund his ambitions. Those promises were not based on a sound business base which would earn the money to support them. The owner has the right to run her business how she sees fit and she clearly wants the club to have more earning potential. How do you think Cortese was going to fund his plans? I don't personally think there's much astute about a plan that depends so much on huge cash injections from the owner. That begs the question of how you service that debt. Or do you think the owner should just keep pumping the money in? That way lies insolvency. It is certainly unrealistic. And anyway, why on earth should any of us trust a banker given their recent history?[/p][/quote]That's very well-informed and carefully argued post about the scale of the Liebherr financial investment. Which makes me wonder why you use "shareholder" as your login name. Our club, of course, has only one shareholder, namely Katharina Liebherr. Are you somebody with some inside knowledge, tasked with defending her on here? Crossley Place Saint
  • Score: 1

12:26pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Chapperall says...

vidman wrote:
According to BBC Benda now wants JayRod
Yes I heard that too. Why don't we just sell him the whole team and start again!
[quote][p][bold]vidman[/bold] wrote: According to BBC Benda now wants JayRod[/p][/quote]Yes I heard that too. Why don't we just sell him the whole team and start again! Chapperall
  • Score: 2

12:33pm Mon 28 Jul 14

poshdave says...

........what's with the latest trend of writing essays on here now then?.......I want to read SHORT sound bites, not a Jane Austin novel!.........anywa
y , we are a two weeks away from the start and have had our team ripped apart,...........whe
re's the signings?...........
.....where's the team?....looks like we will be on Rightmove very soon!...............
.
........what's with the latest trend of writing essays on here now then?.......I want to read SHORT sound bites, not a Jane Austin novel!.........anywa y , we are a two weeks away from the start and have had our team ripped apart,...........whe re's the signings?........... .....where's the team?....looks like we will be on Rightmove very soon!............... . poshdave
  • Score: 2

12:39pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Saints n Winners says...

I am starting to think that maybe Les Reed and his mate have been lied to - or told half truths. This may also be the case with Ronnie.

Maybe the club owner has been playing both sides against each other - and told Les that Ron doesn't mind selling players who don't want to be here.

For Ron; he is n a win win situation. He just needs to get a few good recruits in - bed them in - and achieve a top14/15 finish - and this will be seen as successful. If he finishes in the top12- his stock will rise considerably.

In many ways, if he is allowed to buy 2 or 3 more players with significant enough cash - he may even be kicking himself that he has been allowed to build at least half his side.
I am starting to think that maybe Les Reed and his mate have been lied to - or told half truths. This may also be the case with Ronnie. Maybe the club owner has been playing both sides against each other - and told Les that Ron doesn't mind selling players who don't want to be here. For Ron; he is n a win win situation. He just needs to get a few good recruits in - bed them in - and achieve a top14/15 finish - and this will be seen as successful. If he finishes in the top12- his stock will rise considerably. In many ways, if he is allowed to buy 2 or 3 more players with significant enough cash - he may even be kicking himself that he has been allowed to build at least half his side. Saints n Winners
  • Score: 0

12:56pm Mon 28 Jul 14

steekeemcglue says...

Shareholder wrote:
warrens 76 wrote:
Shareholder wrote:
warrens 76 wrote:
Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of..

He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be..

Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this….

I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.
And how was Cortese going to achieve that? He promised an awful lot to both players and fans. The trouble is he didn't check with the owner that she was going to pay for it. The cost of maintaining such a high value club is enormous and it doesn't much matter how rich you are you still need the branding to be international and the stadium to be large enough to ensure your income streams can support the expenditure - and you need to have enough fans to fill the stadium. That all takes time, far longer than the splashing out on expensive players and their ever increasing wage demands. Cortese was happy to engage in the Premier League's nonsensical policy of allowing otherwise bankrupt clubs to continue spending in the pursuit of European pay days to service the debt. And there lies the real problem. The so called big clubs in the Premiership are all technically insolvent. They have to keep qualifying for the Champions League to service their ludicrous debts. They have to keep buying the best from so called lesser clubs to maintain that process - to create more debt. The Premier League will never do what American sports leagues have done and introduce wage caps and draft systems because that would inevitably lead to a Man Utd or an Arsenal going bust. And the media tycoons wouldn't like that as viewer confidence would fall and they'd lose profits. Then they wouldn't offer enough money to pay the silly wages the big boys pay out so the players would quit the UK for more lucrative climes. So don't blame our current board or our owner. Blame the real culprit - professional football. Be it the Premier League, UEFA, La Liga, FIFA etc it stinks to high heaven and we fans are mugs for putting up with it. While things stay as they are every team outside the mini league of the'top six' will continue to lose their best players. Our problem is we have seven or eight that fit the bill - Swansea have two or three and all of them are likely to go (see their fans outrage at that - it matches ours) and the same is true of any other club, it just depends on how many. And if Koeman does succeed expect more of the same next year. Cortese wanted to do it all in a rush - before likely quitting to go to bigger club in Spain or Italy. We should remember the words of Markus Liebherr when he was asked how he would achieve his ambitions for the club: 'In small steps' he said. He calculated his ambition of returning the club to the Premier League would take five years, after his death Cortese accelerated things and did it in four. I think Markus wouldn't have changed his approach had he lived and would take small steps towards the next goal of consistent European football. After all, small steps is how he built his fortune. So in this respect his daughter is more in line with her father's philosophy than was Cortese and I'm happy with that thanks. So let's get everything in perspective, support our club and all work however we can to help bring about the changes to our game that are so badly needed to restore balance and fairness.
No he was not bankrupting us.. the signings of all the players to long term contracts even MoPo £2 million was the work of a shrewd banker not the profligate chairman you allude to…

Using ML's money he turned a £14 million investment into £200-250 million…this is a completely different indeed unique situation for any club reaching the premier league…he did it shrewdly, that is what you are missing.
I've missed nothing. Firstly the Liebherr outlay was more like £80m once you take into account the initial purchase, the £33m invested after that which was converted to shareholdings and the£30m+ for Staplewood. Your estimate of the club's current worth is only that- an estimate. Cortese promised things to players and fans based on the owner being prepared to pump in many millions to fund his ambitions. Those promises were not based on a sound business base which would earn the money to support them. The owner has the right to run her business how she sees fit and she clearly wants the club to have more earning potential. How do you think Cortese was going to fund his plans? I don't personally think there's much astute about a plan that depends so much on huge cash injections from the owner. That begs the question of how you service that debt. Or do you think the owner should just keep pumping the money in? That way lies insolvency. It is certainly unrealistic. And anyway, why on earth should any of us trust a banker given their recent history?
superb post... there can only be 4 clubs each year finishing in the top four... one of those that did not is on the verge of financial disaster if they fail again next year. They are servicing their debt by global branding alone...Manure could soon show us all what a dangerous game Cortese was planning....
[quote][p][bold]Shareholder[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shareholder[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of.. He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be.. Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this…. I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.[/p][/quote]And how was Cortese going to achieve that? He promised an awful lot to both players and fans. The trouble is he didn't check with the owner that she was going to pay for it. The cost of maintaining such a high value club is enormous and it doesn't much matter how rich you are you still need the branding to be international and the stadium to be large enough to ensure your income streams can support the expenditure - and you need to have enough fans to fill the stadium. That all takes time, far longer than the splashing out on expensive players and their ever increasing wage demands. Cortese was happy to engage in the Premier League's nonsensical policy of allowing otherwise bankrupt clubs to continue spending in the pursuit of European pay days to service the debt. And there lies the real problem. The so called big clubs in the Premiership are all technically insolvent. They have to keep qualifying for the Champions League to service their ludicrous debts. They have to keep buying the best from so called lesser clubs to maintain that process - to create more debt. The Premier League will never do what American sports leagues have done and introduce wage caps and draft systems because that would inevitably lead to a Man Utd or an Arsenal going bust. And the media tycoons wouldn't like that as viewer confidence would fall and they'd lose profits. Then they wouldn't offer enough money to pay the silly wages the big boys pay out so the players would quit the UK for more lucrative climes. So don't blame our current board or our owner. Blame the real culprit - professional football. Be it the Premier League, UEFA, La Liga, FIFA etc it stinks to high heaven and we fans are mugs for putting up with it. While things stay as they are every team outside the mini league of the'top six' will continue to lose their best players. Our problem is we have seven or eight that fit the bill - Swansea have two or three and all of them are likely to go (see their fans outrage at that - it matches ours) and the same is true of any other club, it just depends on how many. And if Koeman does succeed expect more of the same next year. Cortese wanted to do it all in a rush - before likely quitting to go to bigger club in Spain or Italy. We should remember the words of Markus Liebherr when he was asked how he would achieve his ambitions for the club: 'In small steps' he said. He calculated his ambition of returning the club to the Premier League would take five years, after his death Cortese accelerated things and did it in four. I think Markus wouldn't have changed his approach had he lived and would take small steps towards the next goal of consistent European football. After all, small steps is how he built his fortune. So in this respect his daughter is more in line with her father's philosophy than was Cortese and I'm happy with that thanks. So let's get everything in perspective, support our club and all work however we can to help bring about the changes to our game that are so badly needed to restore balance and fairness.[/p][/quote]No he was not bankrupting us.. the signings of all the players to long term contracts even MoPo £2 million was the work of a shrewd banker not the profligate chairman you allude to… Using ML's money he turned a £14 million investment into £200-250 million…this is a completely different indeed unique situation for any club reaching the premier league…he did it shrewdly, that is what you are missing.[/p][/quote]I've missed nothing. Firstly the Liebherr outlay was more like £80m once you take into account the initial purchase, the £33m invested after that which was converted to shareholdings and the£30m+ for Staplewood. Your estimate of the club's current worth is only that- an estimate. Cortese promised things to players and fans based on the owner being prepared to pump in many millions to fund his ambitions. Those promises were not based on a sound business base which would earn the money to support them. The owner has the right to run her business how she sees fit and she clearly wants the club to have more earning potential. How do you think Cortese was going to fund his plans? I don't personally think there's much astute about a plan that depends so much on huge cash injections from the owner. That begs the question of how you service that debt. Or do you think the owner should just keep pumping the money in? That way lies insolvency. It is certainly unrealistic. And anyway, why on earth should any of us trust a banker given their recent history?[/p][/quote]superb post... there can only be 4 clubs each year finishing in the top four... one of those that did not is on the verge of financial disaster if they fail again next year. They are servicing their debt by global branding alone...Manure could soon show us all what a dangerous game Cortese was planning.... steekeemcglue
  • Score: 3

1:00pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Gormzzz says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
Numpty Girl wrote:
canfordcherry wrote:
I'm surprised you lot haven't been protesting at the ground yet. Demanding answers to what has happened. Whens the R Solent fans forum?
I know we have a lot of banter between us as fans but I do really feel for you guys and the predicament you find yourselves in, especially the lack of info coming from your club.
Unfortunately, most of our fans are happy-clappers and would still be smiling if Les Reed were to sell the whole first team.
Do you actually believe that? Wrong on several levels, most of our fans at the moment are neggies and fully justified at being so, they have nothing to be happy about, I was under the impression we had already sold the best part of the first team and are having to start again all over. Not sure about Les Reed, but the lack of any clarity has more to do with that the actual actions. A few explanations and any information on future plans would help but it has got a stage where we cannot believe anything that has been told us, because patently it has been a pack of lies, it seems. I am desperate to give my support, but it needs more than a continued silence and a steady stream of players joining the exodus. Feed me good positive news and I will back you up. It isn't rocket science.
This is pretty much everything I've argued with you about over the last few weeks, everything you've had a go at me for saying, how comes your the one saying it now? are you tired of being hated. It's good that your now seeing some sense but why the swift turn around?
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Numpty Girl[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]canfordcherry[/bold] wrote: I'm surprised you lot haven't been protesting at the ground yet. Demanding answers to what has happened. Whens the R Solent fans forum? I know we have a lot of banter between us as fans but I do really feel for you guys and the predicament you find yourselves in, especially the lack of info coming from your club.[/p][/quote]Unfortunately, most of our fans are happy-clappers and would still be smiling if Les Reed were to sell the whole first team.[/p][/quote]Do you actually believe that? Wrong on several levels, most of our fans at the moment are neggies and fully justified at being so, they have nothing to be happy about, I was under the impression we had already sold the best part of the first team and are having to start again all over. Not sure about Les Reed, but the lack of any clarity has more to do with that the actual actions. A few explanations and any information on future plans would help but it has got a stage where we cannot believe anything that has been told us, because patently it has been a pack of lies, it seems. I am desperate to give my support, but it needs more than a continued silence and a steady stream of players joining the exodus. Feed me good positive news and I will back you up. It isn't rocket science.[/p][/quote]This is pretty much everything I've argued with you about over the last few weeks, everything you've had a go at me for saying, how comes your the one saying it now? are you tired of being hated. It's good that your now seeing some sense but why the swift turn around? Gormzzz
  • Score: -1

1:01pm Mon 28 Jul 14

TGodSFC says...

I do wish people would stop going on about NC. If, ifs and buts were candies and nuts we’d all have a merry Christmas. Fact is he’s gone, Poch has gone, 4 players so far have gone and 1 more to be announced today. I’m as upset set by all of this as anyone, and I’ve had nothing but “I feel really sorry for you, it’s really not fair” from everyone I know (even Liverpool fans). We don’t know why Poch left or why these players are leaving in the masses, because the board won’t tell us. It could be a number of reasons and would be pointless to speculate, but every possibility has crossed all our minds. Until the board actually comes out and explains what’s going on we will only be able to speculate.

One way to look at it is, we are potentially going to lose 7 starters from last season. Another way is, we paid about 10/12M for Lambert, Lallana, Shaw, Lovern and Chambers, and we’ve made about 91M from the sale of these players. If that money gets pumped back into the squad, which Les Reed promised us before this mass exodus, and we can still attract top players, then we should be ok.

I honestly think the thing that sickens me and all other fans is, we all sat and watched the interview with Les Reed about 2 months ago, which he stated, “no player would be sold unless it’s in Southamptons best interest.” “There will not be a fire sale here.” “Any money raised from player sales, will be given to the new manager to spend.” None of these statements are yet to be true, how can you trust a man who doesn’t stand by his word, or at least back up his actions with valued points.

Bottom line, 2 things need to happen to appease all us fans. 1) All the money raised from players sales needs to be spent on top class players! 2) The board or Owner need to come out to the fans to explain their actions over the last month.
I do wish people would stop going on about NC. If, ifs and buts were candies and nuts we’d all have a merry Christmas. Fact is he’s gone, Poch has gone, 4 players so far have gone and 1 more to be announced today. I’m as upset set by all of this as anyone, and I’ve had nothing but “I feel really sorry for you, it’s really not fair” from everyone I know (even Liverpool fans). We don’t know why Poch left or why these players are leaving in the masses, because the board won’t tell us. It could be a number of reasons and would be pointless to speculate, but every possibility has crossed all our minds. Until the board actually comes out and explains what’s going on we will only be able to speculate. One way to look at it is, we are potentially going to lose 7 starters from last season. Another way is, we paid about 10/12M for Lambert, Lallana, Shaw, Lovern and Chambers, and we’ve made about 91M from the sale of these players. If that money gets pumped back into the squad, which Les Reed promised us before this mass exodus, and we can still attract top players, then we should be ok. I honestly think the thing that sickens me and all other fans is, we all sat and watched the interview with Les Reed about 2 months ago, which he stated, “no player would be sold unless it’s in Southamptons best interest.” “There will not be a fire sale here.” “Any money raised from player sales, will be given to the new manager to spend.” None of these statements are yet to be true, how can you trust a man who doesn’t stand by his word, or at least back up his actions with valued points. Bottom line, 2 things need to happen to appease all us fans. 1) All the money raised from players sales needs to be spent on top class players! 2) The board or Owner need to come out to the fans to explain their actions over the last month. TGodSFC
  • Score: 1

1:06pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Gormzzz says...

Gormzzz wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
Numpty Girl wrote:
canfordcherry wrote:
I'm surprised you lot haven't been protesting at the ground yet. Demanding answers to what has happened. Whens the R Solent fans forum?
I know we have a lot of banter between us as fans but I do really feel for you guys and the predicament you find yourselves in, especially the lack of info coming from your club.
Unfortunately, most of our fans are happy-clappers and would still be smiling if Les Reed were to sell the whole first team.
Do you actually believe that? Wrong on several levels, most of our fans at the moment are neggies and fully justified at being so, they have nothing to be happy about, I was under the impression we had already sold the best part of the first team and are having to start again all over. Not sure about Les Reed, but the lack of any clarity has more to do with that the actual actions. A few explanations and any information on future plans would help but it has got a stage where we cannot believe anything that has been told us, because patently it has been a pack of lies, it seems. I am desperate to give my support, but it needs more than a continued silence and a steady stream of players joining the exodus. Feed me good positive news and I will back you up. It isn't rocket science.
This is pretty much everything I've argued with you about over the last few weeks, everything you've had a go at me for saying, how comes your the one saying it now? are you tired of being hated. It's good that your now seeing some sense but why the swift turn around?
Have we finally earned the right to be negative now Osprey? Thank god you've given your blessing on that front. I'm sure you'll be back to your usual positive ways by this evening. You didn't mind losing all these guys yesterday. Like I said even if replaced, how do you get 5 or 6 new players to gel, especially when they are the spine of your team. One last thing, Pelle is still awful, just like he was 2 weeks ago. I can't believe you've actually made a U turn like that, did you think nobody would notice.
[quote][p][bold]Gormzzz[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Numpty Girl[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]canfordcherry[/bold] wrote: I'm surprised you lot haven't been protesting at the ground yet. Demanding answers to what has happened. Whens the R Solent fans forum? I know we have a lot of banter between us as fans but I do really feel for you guys and the predicament you find yourselves in, especially the lack of info coming from your club.[/p][/quote]Unfortunately, most of our fans are happy-clappers and would still be smiling if Les Reed were to sell the whole first team.[/p][/quote]Do you actually believe that? Wrong on several levels, most of our fans at the moment are neggies and fully justified at being so, they have nothing to be happy about, I was under the impression we had already sold the best part of the first team and are having to start again all over. Not sure about Les Reed, but the lack of any clarity has more to do with that the actual actions. A few explanations and any information on future plans would help but it has got a stage where we cannot believe anything that has been told us, because patently it has been a pack of lies, it seems. I am desperate to give my support, but it needs more than a continued silence and a steady stream of players joining the exodus. Feed me good positive news and I will back you up. It isn't rocket science.[/p][/quote]This is pretty much everything I've argued with you about over the last few weeks, everything you've had a go at me for saying, how comes your the one saying it now? are you tired of being hated. It's good that your now seeing some sense but why the swift turn around?[/p][/quote]Have we finally earned the right to be negative now Osprey? Thank god you've given your blessing on that front. I'm sure you'll be back to your usual positive ways by this evening. You didn't mind losing all these guys yesterday. Like I said even if replaced, how do you get 5 or 6 new players to gel, especially when they are the spine of your team. One last thing, Pelle is still awful, just like he was 2 weeks ago. I can't believe you've actually made a U turn like that, did you think nobody would notice. Gormzzz
  • Score: -4

1:14pm Mon 28 Jul 14

TGodSFC says...

steekeemcglue wrote:
Shareholder wrote:
warrens 76 wrote:
Shareholder wrote:
warrens 76 wrote:
Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of..

He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be..

Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this….

I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.
And how was Cortese going to achieve that? He promised an awful lot to both players and fans. The trouble is he didn't check with the owner that she was going to pay for it. The cost of maintaining such a high value club is enormous and it doesn't much matter how rich you are you still need the branding to be international and the stadium to be large enough to ensure your income streams can support the expenditure - and you need to have enough fans to fill the stadium. That all takes time, far longer than the splashing out on expensive players and their ever increasing wage demands. Cortese was happy to engage in the Premier League's nonsensical policy of allowing otherwise bankrupt clubs to continue spending in the pursuit of European pay days to service the debt. And there lies the real problem. The so called big clubs in the Premiership are all technically insolvent. They have to keep qualifying for the Champions League to service their ludicrous debts. They have to keep buying the best from so called lesser clubs to maintain that process - to create more debt. The Premier League will never do what American sports leagues have done and introduce wage caps and draft systems because that would inevitably lead to a Man Utd or an Arsenal going bust. And the media tycoons wouldn't like that as viewer confidence would fall and they'd lose profits. Then they wouldn't offer enough money to pay the silly wages the big boys pay out so the players would quit the UK for more lucrative climes. So don't blame our current board or our owner. Blame the real culprit - professional football. Be it the Premier League, UEFA, La Liga, FIFA etc it stinks to high heaven and we fans are mugs for putting up with it. While things stay as they are every team outside the mini league of the'top six' will continue to lose their best players. Our problem is we have seven or eight that fit the bill - Swansea have two or three and all of them are likely to go (see their fans outrage at that - it matches ours) and the same is true of any other club, it just depends on how many. And if Koeman does succeed expect more of the same next year. Cortese wanted to do it all in a rush - before likely quitting to go to bigger club in Spain or Italy. We should remember the words of Markus Liebherr when he was asked how he would achieve his ambitions for the club: 'In small steps' he said. He calculated his ambition of returning the club to the Premier League would take five years, after his death Cortese accelerated things and did it in four. I think Markus wouldn't have changed his approach had he lived and would take small steps towards the next goal of consistent European football. After all, small steps is how he built his fortune. So in this respect his daughter is more in line with her father's philosophy than was Cortese and I'm happy with that thanks. So let's get everything in perspective, support our club and all work however we can to help bring about the changes to our game that are so badly needed to restore balance and fairness.
No he was not bankrupting us.. the signings of all the players to long term contracts even MoPo £2 million was the work of a shrewd banker not the profligate chairman you allude to…

Using ML's money he turned a £14 million investment into £200-250 million…this is a completely different indeed unique situation for any club reaching the premier league…he did it shrewdly, that is what you are missing.
I've missed nothing. Firstly the Liebherr outlay was more like £80m once you take into account the initial purchase, the £33m invested after that which was converted to shareholdings and the£30m+ for Staplewood. Your estimate of the club's current worth is only that- an estimate. Cortese promised things to players and fans based on the owner being prepared to pump in many millions to fund his ambitions. Those promises were not based on a sound business base which would earn the money to support them. The owner has the right to run her business how she sees fit and she clearly wants the club to have more earning potential. How do you think Cortese was going to fund his plans? I don't personally think there's much astute about a plan that depends so much on huge cash injections from the owner. That begs the question of how you service that debt. Or do you think the owner should just keep pumping the money in? That way lies insolvency. It is certainly unrealistic. And anyway, why on earth should any of us trust a banker given their recent history?
superb post... there can only be 4 clubs each year finishing in the top four... one of those that did not is on the verge of financial disaster if they fail again next year. They are servicing their debt by global branding alone...Manure could soon show us all what a dangerous game Cortese was planning....
I agree with everything "Shareholder" has said, Also don’t forget the Liebherrs’ put their own money in when buying players like, Forte, Sharpe, Yoshida, then next seaon Gaston, JRod, etc, but can understand the frustration of losing our top players, it’s not fun. Just be nice if the board released a statement via the clubs PR dept.
[quote][p][bold]steekeemcglue[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shareholder[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shareholder[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of.. He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be.. Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this…. I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.[/p][/quote]And how was Cortese going to achieve that? He promised an awful lot to both players and fans. The trouble is he didn't check with the owner that she was going to pay for it. The cost of maintaining such a high value club is enormous and it doesn't much matter how rich you are you still need the branding to be international and the stadium to be large enough to ensure your income streams can support the expenditure - and you need to have enough fans to fill the stadium. That all takes time, far longer than the splashing out on expensive players and their ever increasing wage demands. Cortese was happy to engage in the Premier League's nonsensical policy of allowing otherwise bankrupt clubs to continue spending in the pursuit of European pay days to service the debt. And there lies the real problem. The so called big clubs in the Premiership are all technically insolvent. They have to keep qualifying for the Champions League to service their ludicrous debts. They have to keep buying the best from so called lesser clubs to maintain that process - to create more debt. The Premier League will never do what American sports leagues have done and introduce wage caps and draft systems because that would inevitably lead to a Man Utd or an Arsenal going bust. And the media tycoons wouldn't like that as viewer confidence would fall and they'd lose profits. Then they wouldn't offer enough money to pay the silly wages the big boys pay out so the players would quit the UK for more lucrative climes. So don't blame our current board or our owner. Blame the real culprit - professional football. Be it the Premier League, UEFA, La Liga, FIFA etc it stinks to high heaven and we fans are mugs for putting up with it. While things stay as they are every team outside the mini league of the'top six' will continue to lose their best players. Our problem is we have seven or eight that fit the bill - Swansea have two or three and all of them are likely to go (see their fans outrage at that - it matches ours) and the same is true of any other club, it just depends on how many. And if Koeman does succeed expect more of the same next year. Cortese wanted to do it all in a rush - before likely quitting to go to bigger club in Spain or Italy. We should remember the words of Markus Liebherr when he was asked how he would achieve his ambitions for the club: 'In small steps' he said. He calculated his ambition of returning the club to the Premier League would take five years, after his death Cortese accelerated things and did it in four. I think Markus wouldn't have changed his approach had he lived and would take small steps towards the next goal of consistent European football. After all, small steps is how he built his fortune. So in this respect his daughter is more in line with her father's philosophy than was Cortese and I'm happy with that thanks. So let's get everything in perspective, support our club and all work however we can to help bring about the changes to our game that are so badly needed to restore balance and fairness.[/p][/quote]No he was not bankrupting us.. the signings of all the players to long term contracts even MoPo £2 million was the work of a shrewd banker not the profligate chairman you allude to… Using ML's money he turned a £14 million investment into £200-250 million…this is a completely different indeed unique situation for any club reaching the premier league…he did it shrewdly, that is what you are missing.[/p][/quote]I've missed nothing. Firstly the Liebherr outlay was more like £80m once you take into account the initial purchase, the £33m invested after that which was converted to shareholdings and the£30m+ for Staplewood. Your estimate of the club's current worth is only that- an estimate. Cortese promised things to players and fans based on the owner being prepared to pump in many millions to fund his ambitions. Those promises were not based on a sound business base which would earn the money to support them. The owner has the right to run her business how she sees fit and she clearly wants the club to have more earning potential. How do you think Cortese was going to fund his plans? I don't personally think there's much astute about a plan that depends so much on huge cash injections from the owner. That begs the question of how you service that debt. Or do you think the owner should just keep pumping the money in? That way lies insolvency. It is certainly unrealistic. And anyway, why on earth should any of us trust a banker given their recent history?[/p][/quote]superb post... there can only be 4 clubs each year finishing in the top four... one of those that did not is on the verge of financial disaster if they fail again next year. They are servicing their debt by global branding alone...Manure could soon show us all what a dangerous game Cortese was planning....[/p][/quote]I agree with everything "Shareholder" has said, Also don’t forget the Liebherrs’ put their own money in when buying players like, Forte, Sharpe, Yoshida, then next seaon Gaston, JRod, etc, but can understand the frustration of losing our top players, it’s not fun. Just be nice if the board released a statement via the clubs PR dept. TGodSFC
  • Score: 3

1:15pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Rising_Son says...

Mush On The Beach wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
saint bartley wrote:
Just pondering what our squad situation would be if Cortese was still here...
Hypothetical now, but probably we would have a few unhappy players staying on in fear of their lives perhaps, as soon as NC went, the fear factor went with it.
The fear factor certainly disappeared from Old Trafford after Fergie left his post. I’d like to think NC would have told these vulture tyrant clubs to do one but in truth money talks and players walk.
According to the yesterday's Sunday Times, NC told Shaw last year that, if he signed a 5-year contract, he would be sold this year. Of course, it might no be true, but if it is, isn't also possible that he told similar things to others? If I remember correctly, didn't Lovren say he had been promised that he could go if an offer of 20 mill+ came in?
[quote][p][bold]Mush On The Beach[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]saint bartley[/bold] wrote: Just pondering what our squad situation would be if Cortese was still here...[/p][/quote]Hypothetical now, but probably we would have a few unhappy players staying on in fear of their lives perhaps, as soon as NC went, the fear factor went with it.[/p][/quote]The fear factor certainly disappeared from Old Trafford after Fergie left his post. I’d like to think NC would have told these vulture tyrant clubs to do one but in truth money talks and players walk.[/p][/quote]According to the yesterday's Sunday Times, NC told Shaw last year that, if he signed a 5-year contract, he would be sold this year. Of course, it might no be true, but if it is, isn't also possible that he told similar things to others? If I remember correctly, didn't Lovren say he had been promised that he could go if an offer of 20 mill+ came in? Rising_Son
  • Score: 4

1:17pm Mon 28 Jul 14

sledgerite says...

lets be glad they were on long contracts meant we could extract big fees,think we made a big mistake in not getting shot of mp when cortese went plenty of time to sh*t stir and under achieve,lets get behind the team and bo*****s to the mercenries
lets be glad they were on long contracts meant we could extract big fees,think we made a big mistake in not getting shot of mp when cortese went plenty of time to sh*t stir and under achieve,lets get behind the team and bo*****s to the mercenries sledgerite
  • Score: 5

1:18pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Saints n Winners says...

Saints n Winners wrote:
I am starting to think that maybe Les Reed and his mate have been lied to - or told half truths. This may also be the case with Ronnie.

Maybe the club owner has been playing both sides against each other - and told Les that Ron doesn't mind selling players who don't want to be here.

For Ron; he is n a win win situation. He just needs to get a few good recruits in - bed them in - and achieve a top14/15 finish - and this will be seen as successful. If he finishes in the top12- his stock will rise considerably.

In many ways, if he is allowed to buy 2 or 3 more players with significant enough cash - he may even be kicking himself that he has been allowed to build at least half his side.
And obviously the Echo are being kept out of the loop as they have got this news via another paper
[quote][p][bold]Saints n Winners[/bold] wrote: I am starting to think that maybe Les Reed and his mate have been lied to - or told half truths. This may also be the case with Ronnie. Maybe the club owner has been playing both sides against each other - and told Les that Ron doesn't mind selling players who don't want to be here. For Ron; he is n a win win situation. He just needs to get a few good recruits in - bed them in - and achieve a top14/15 finish - and this will be seen as successful. If he finishes in the top12- his stock will rise considerably. In many ways, if he is allowed to buy 2 or 3 more players with significant enough cash - he may even be kicking himself that he has been allowed to build at least half his side.[/p][/quote]And obviously the Echo are being kept out of the loop as they have got this news via another paper Saints n Winners
  • Score: -2

1:18pm Mon 28 Jul 14

saintbobby says...

TGodSFC wrote:
I do wish people would stop going on about NC. If, ifs and buts were candies and nuts we’d all have a merry Christmas. Fact is he’s gone, Poch has gone, 4 players so far have gone and 1 more to be announced today. I’m as upset set by all of this as anyone, and I’ve had nothing but “I feel really sorry for you, it’s really not fair” from everyone I know (even Liverpool fans). We don’t know why Poch left or why these players are leaving in the masses, because the board won’t tell us. It could be a number of reasons and would be pointless to speculate, but every possibility has crossed all our minds. Until the board actually comes out and explains what’s going on we will only be able to speculate.

One way to look at it is, we are potentially going to lose 7 starters from last season. Another way is, we paid about 10/12M for Lambert, Lallana, Shaw, Lovern and Chambers, and we’ve made about 91M from the sale of these players. If that money gets pumped back into the squad, which Les Reed promised us before this mass exodus, and we can still attract top players, then we should be ok.

I honestly think the thing that sickens me and all other fans is, we all sat and watched the interview with Les Reed about 2 months ago, which he stated, “no player would be sold unless it’s in Southamptons best interest.” “There will not be a fire sale here.” “Any money raised from player sales, will be given to the new manager to spend.” None of these statements are yet to be true, how can you trust a man who doesn’t stand by his word, or at least back up his actions with valued points.

Bottom line, 2 things need to happen to appease all us fans. 1) All the money raised from players sales needs to be spent on top class players! 2) The board or Owner need to come out to the fans to explain their actions over the last month.
TGod, well said. Absolutely 100% with what I believe and what I have been trying to get across for weeks.

I can live with losing players, perhaps, but I just cannot accept being told there is no fire sale and I cannot accept how there is so little communication to the best fans any club could hope for. Some say what has happened is lying but I won't say that.

But a lot on here will be feeling very hurt having renewed their season tickets at very considerable expense and now finding the cast is not that they believed would run out in the welcome stripes.

Again, I say, we can just hope for some exciting news in the next week or so.

OCOYR&WS
[quote][p][bold]TGodSFC[/bold] wrote: I do wish people would stop going on about NC. If, ifs and buts were candies and nuts we’d all have a merry Christmas. Fact is he’s gone, Poch has gone, 4 players so far have gone and 1 more to be announced today. I’m as upset set by all of this as anyone, and I’ve had nothing but “I feel really sorry for you, it’s really not fair” from everyone I know (even Liverpool fans). We don’t know why Poch left or why these players are leaving in the masses, because the board won’t tell us. It could be a number of reasons and would be pointless to speculate, but every possibility has crossed all our minds. Until the board actually comes out and explains what’s going on we will only be able to speculate. One way to look at it is, we are potentially going to lose 7 starters from last season. Another way is, we paid about 10/12M for Lambert, Lallana, Shaw, Lovern and Chambers, and we’ve made about 91M from the sale of these players. If that money gets pumped back into the squad, which Les Reed promised us before this mass exodus, and we can still attract top players, then we should be ok. I honestly think the thing that sickens me and all other fans is, we all sat and watched the interview with Les Reed about 2 months ago, which he stated, “no player would be sold unless it’s in Southamptons best interest.” “There will not be a fire sale here.” “Any money raised from player sales, will be given to the new manager to spend.” None of these statements are yet to be true, how can you trust a man who doesn’t stand by his word, or at least back up his actions with valued points. Bottom line, 2 things need to happen to appease all us fans. 1) All the money raised from players sales needs to be spent on top class players! 2) The board or Owner need to come out to the fans to explain their actions over the last month.[/p][/quote]TGod, well said. Absolutely 100% with what I believe and what I have been trying to get across for weeks. I can live with losing players, perhaps, but I just cannot accept being told there is no fire sale and I cannot accept how there is so little communication to the best fans any club could hope for. Some say what has happened is lying but I won't say that. But a lot on here will be feeling very hurt having renewed their season tickets at very considerable expense and now finding the cast is not that they believed would run out in the welcome stripes. Again, I say, we can just hope for some exciting news in the next week or so. OCOYR&WS saintbobby
  • Score: 2

1:18pm Mon 28 Jul 14

peregrine73 says...

BumperSaint wrote:
My wish list for this week......

Monday: Morgan returns to training, meets Ron and then publicly declares his commitment to the saints for ever after!

Tuesday: De Vrj and Vlaar announced as two new CB signings.

Wednesday: SFC announce new contracts for jay, jack and Jose!

Thurs: Forster announced as new keeper and then makes debut in friendly win against Brighton.

Friday: Danny Ings and Nathan Redmond announced as new English talent on 5 yr deals!

Someone pinch me please!
A great dream,but its not going to happen.It will not be possible to replace short-term the massive leakage of our core players,we maybe able to sign stop gap players,but will they keep us up?. I don't think RK would have been aware off our dour situation when he signed, I hope he continues, but wouldn't blame him if he pulled away as well. He has been let down by the board as has the fans.
[quote][p][bold]BumperSaint[/bold] wrote: My wish list for this week...... Monday: Morgan returns to training, meets Ron and then publicly declares his commitment to the saints for ever after! Tuesday: De Vrj and Vlaar announced as two new CB signings. Wednesday: SFC announce new contracts for jay, jack and Jose! Thurs: Forster announced as new keeper and then makes debut in friendly win against Brighton. Friday: Danny Ings and Nathan Redmond announced as new English talent on 5 yr deals! Someone pinch me please![/p][/quote]A great dream,but its not going to happen.It will not be possible to replace short-term the massive leakage of our core players,we maybe able to sign stop gap players,but will they keep us up?. I don't think RK would have been aware off our dour situation when he signed, I hope he continues, but wouldn't blame him if he pulled away as well. He has been let down by the board as has the fans. peregrine73
  • Score: 0

1:25pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Stafford Saint says...

This is the sale (if it happens) that will frustrate the most. I think that the individual circumstances of each of the others make them tolerable in the long run - got good money for them ... cannot hold back players always and sometimes it is good to get rid if they lose focus etc. On the one hand £16million is a lot for a player of one year experience in the first team and we do have hs replacement already here. It does seem that in no way could one say we need the money for player purchases! Especially if we do get rid of Osvaldo ok. It is just that his potential could be immense. There has been talk about him one day moving to centre of defence or midfield even and being a big star and future England captain. If his stock does continue to rise then we would probably still lose him but we could get so much more for him and be a bigger part of his history. A sell-on fee % could be worth little if he stays at Arsenal for over a decade.
This is the sale (if it happens) that will frustrate the most. I think that the individual circumstances of each of the others make them tolerable in the long run - got good money for them ... cannot hold back players always and sometimes it is good to get rid if they lose focus etc. On the one hand £16million is a lot for a player of one year experience in the first team and we do have hs replacement already here. It does seem that in no way could one say we need the money for player purchases! Especially if we do get rid of Osvaldo ok. It is just that his potential could be immense. There has been talk about him one day moving to centre of defence or midfield even and being a big star and future England captain. If his stock does continue to rise then we would probably still lose him but we could get so much more for him and be a bigger part of his history. A sell-on fee % could be worth little if he stays at Arsenal for over a decade. Stafford Saint
  • Score: 1

1:31pm Mon 28 Jul 14

steekeemcglue says...

Gormzzz wrote:
Gormzzz wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
Numpty Girl wrote:
canfordcherry wrote:
I'm surprised you lot haven't been protesting at the ground yet. Demanding answers to what has happened. Whens the R Solent fans forum?
I know we have a lot of banter between us as fans but I do really feel for you guys and the predicament you find yourselves in, especially the lack of info coming from your club.
Unfortunately, most of our fans are happy-clappers and would still be smiling if Les Reed were to sell the whole first team.
Do you actually believe that? Wrong on several levels, most of our fans at the moment are neggies and fully justified at being so, they have nothing to be happy about, I was under the impression we had already sold the best part of the first team and are having to start again all over. Not sure about Les Reed, but the lack of any clarity has more to do with that the actual actions. A few explanations and any information on future plans would help but it has got a stage where we cannot believe anything that has been told us, because patently it has been a pack of lies, it seems. I am desperate to give my support, but it needs more than a continued silence and a steady stream of players joining the exodus. Feed me good positive news and I will back you up. It isn't rocket science.
This is pretty much everything I've argued with you about over the last few weeks, everything you've had a go at me for saying, how comes your the one saying it now? are you tired of being hated. It's good that your now seeing some sense but why the swift turn around?
Have we finally earned the right to be negative now Osprey? Thank god you've given your blessing on that front. I'm sure you'll be back to your usual positive ways by this evening. You didn't mind losing all these guys yesterday. Like I said even if replaced, how do you get 5 or 6 new players to gel, especially when they are the spine of your team. One last thing, Pelle is still awful, just like he was 2 weeks ago. I can't believe you've actually made a U turn like that, did you think nobody would notice.
why not wait until you embrace the negativity you desperately seek.... the club are not going to announce the next signings for obvious reasons until we secure them. We could end up with a fantastic squad of players by the end of the transfer window....
[quote][p][bold]Gormzzz[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Gormzzz[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Numpty Girl[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]canfordcherry[/bold] wrote: I'm surprised you lot haven't been protesting at the ground yet. Demanding answers to what has happened. Whens the R Solent fans forum? I know we have a lot of banter between us as fans but I do really feel for you guys and the predicament you find yourselves in, especially the lack of info coming from your club.[/p][/quote]Unfortunately, most of our fans are happy-clappers and would still be smiling if Les Reed were to sell the whole first team.[/p][/quote]Do you actually believe that? Wrong on several levels, most of our fans at the moment are neggies and fully justified at being so, they have nothing to be happy about, I was under the impression we had already sold the best part of the first team and are having to start again all over. Not sure about Les Reed, but the lack of any clarity has more to do with that the actual actions. A few explanations and any information on future plans would help but it has got a stage where we cannot believe anything that has been told us, because patently it has been a pack of lies, it seems. I am desperate to give my support, but it needs more than a continued silence and a steady stream of players joining the exodus. Feed me good positive news and I will back you up. It isn't rocket science.[/p][/quote]This is pretty much everything I've argued with you about over the last few weeks, everything you've had a go at me for saying, how comes your the one saying it now? are you tired of being hated. It's good that your now seeing some sense but why the swift turn around?[/p][/quote]Have we finally earned the right to be negative now Osprey? Thank god you've given your blessing on that front. I'm sure you'll be back to your usual positive ways by this evening. You didn't mind losing all these guys yesterday. Like I said even if replaced, how do you get 5 or 6 new players to gel, especially when they are the spine of your team. One last thing, Pelle is still awful, just like he was 2 weeks ago. I can't believe you've actually made a U turn like that, did you think nobody would notice.[/p][/quote]why not wait until you embrace the negativity you desperately seek.... the club are not going to announce the next signings for obvious reasons until we secure them. We could end up with a fantastic squad of players by the end of the transfer window.... steekeemcglue
  • Score: -1

1:35pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Ozmosis says...

Ozmosis wrote:
"Premier League cash cow is to blame for mass exodus at Saints this summer". Partially. The fact that the players were concerned and unsettled with the lack of vision, direction and communication is the primary cause of the departures. If the board were as quiet with the players as they have been with the fans then who can blame them?
Appreciate the downvotes, lol. What I wrote may not be what you all want to hear but there is strong likelihood of it being entirely true. Adam Blackmore posted a good set of tweets last night regarding this, and that's what I am going from. I've no reason to doubt what he says in any way.

Read some of them, and judge for yourselves. I suggest starting with this one and working through the more recent ones:

https://twitter.com/
bigadamsport/status/
493522241372848128
[quote][p][bold]Ozmosis[/bold] wrote: "Premier League cash cow is to blame for mass exodus at Saints this summer". Partially. The fact that the players were concerned and unsettled with the lack of vision, direction and communication is the primary cause of the departures. If the board were as quiet with the players as they have been with the fans then who can blame them?[/p][/quote]Appreciate the downvotes, lol. What I wrote may not be what you all want to hear but there is strong likelihood of it being entirely true. Adam Blackmore posted a good set of tweets last night regarding this, and that's what I am going from. I've no reason to doubt what he says in any way. Read some of them, and judge for yourselves. I suggest starting with this one and working through the more recent ones: https://twitter.com/ bigadamsport/status/ 493522241372848128 Ozmosis
  • Score: 0

1:42pm Mon 28 Jul 14

BigBugBuzzz says...

Fellow fans,

In the interest of discovering our general sentiment, would you please take the following one-question poll that I have created:

http://vote.pollcode

.com/49543424#sthash

.OhmGuQ7b.dpuf

Thank you.
Fellow fans, In the interest of discovering our general sentiment, would you please take the following one-question poll that I have created: http://vote.pollcode .com/49543424#sthash .OhmGuQ7b.dpuf Thank you. BigBugBuzzz
  • Score: -1

1:45pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Rising_Son says...

saintbobby wrote:
TGodSFC wrote:
I do wish people would stop going on about NC. If, ifs and buts were candies and nuts we’d all have a merry Christmas. Fact is he’s gone, Poch has gone, 4 players so far have gone and 1 more to be announced today. I’m as upset set by all of this as anyone, and I’ve had nothing but “I feel really sorry for you, it’s really not fair” from everyone I know (even Liverpool fans). We don’t know why Poch left or why these players are leaving in the masses, because the board won’t tell us. It could be a number of reasons and would be pointless to speculate, but every possibility has crossed all our minds. Until the board actually comes out and explains what’s going on we will only be able to speculate.

One way to look at it is, we are potentially going to lose 7 starters from last season. Another way is, we paid about 10/12M for Lambert, Lallana, Shaw, Lovern and Chambers, and we’ve made about 91M from the sale of these players. If that money gets pumped back into the squad, which Les Reed promised us before this mass exodus, and we can still attract top players, then we should be ok.

I honestly think the thing that sickens me and all other fans is, we all sat and watched the interview with Les Reed about 2 months ago, which he stated, “no player would be sold unless it’s in Southamptons best interest.” “There will not be a fire sale here.” “Any money raised from player sales, will be given to the new manager to spend.” None of these statements are yet to be true, how can you trust a man who doesn’t stand by his word, or at least back up his actions with valued points.

Bottom line, 2 things need to happen to appease all us fans. 1) All the money raised from players sales needs to be spent on top class players! 2) The board or Owner need to come out to the fans to explain their actions over the last month.
TGod, well said. Absolutely 100% with what I believe and what I have been trying to get across for weeks.

I can live with losing players, perhaps, but I just cannot accept being told there is no fire sale and I cannot accept how there is so little communication to the best fans any club could hope for. Some say what has happened is lying but I won't say that.

But a lot on here will be feeling very hurt having renewed their season tickets at very considerable expense and now finding the cast is not that they believed would run out in the welcome stripes.

Again, I say, we can just hope for some exciting news in the next week or so.

OCOYR&WS
I thought a fire sale was one in which things were sold of cheaply. The money we're getting for these players looks a bit high for that.
[quote][p][bold]saintbobby[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]TGodSFC[/bold] wrote: I do wish people would stop going on about NC. If, ifs and buts were candies and nuts we’d all have a merry Christmas. Fact is he’s gone, Poch has gone, 4 players so far have gone and 1 more to be announced today. I’m as upset set by all of this as anyone, and I’ve had nothing but “I feel really sorry for you, it’s really not fair” from everyone I know (even Liverpool fans). We don’t know why Poch left or why these players are leaving in the masses, because the board won’t tell us. It could be a number of reasons and would be pointless to speculate, but every possibility has crossed all our minds. Until the board actually comes out and explains what’s going on we will only be able to speculate. One way to look at it is, we are potentially going to lose 7 starters from last season. Another way is, we paid about 10/12M for Lambert, Lallana, Shaw, Lovern and Chambers, and we’ve made about 91M from the sale of these players. If that money gets pumped back into the squad, which Les Reed promised us before this mass exodus, and we can still attract top players, then we should be ok. I honestly think the thing that sickens me and all other fans is, we all sat and watched the interview with Les Reed about 2 months ago, which he stated, “no player would be sold unless it’s in Southamptons best interest.” “There will not be a fire sale here.” “Any money raised from player sales, will be given to the new manager to spend.” None of these statements are yet to be true, how can you trust a man who doesn’t stand by his word, or at least back up his actions with valued points. Bottom line, 2 things need to happen to appease all us fans. 1) All the money raised from players sales needs to be spent on top class players! 2) The board or Owner need to come out to the fans to explain their actions over the last month.[/p][/quote]TGod, well said. Absolutely 100% with what I believe and what I have been trying to get across for weeks. I can live with losing players, perhaps, but I just cannot accept being told there is no fire sale and I cannot accept how there is so little communication to the best fans any club could hope for. Some say what has happened is lying but I won't say that. But a lot on here will be feeling very hurt having renewed their season tickets at very considerable expense and now finding the cast is not that they believed would run out in the welcome stripes. Again, I say, we can just hope for some exciting news in the next week or so. OCOYR&WS[/p][/quote]I thought a fire sale was one in which things were sold of cheaply. The money we're getting for these players looks a bit high for that. Rising_Son
  • Score: 3

2:00pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Mosschops says...

warrens 76 wrote:
Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of..

He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be..

Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this….

I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.
If I would be Chairman we would have all that and more. Just so long as I could spend someone else's money to do it - but there's your sticking point.
[quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of.. He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be.. Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this…. I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.[/p][/quote]If I would be Chairman we would have all that and more. Just so long as I could spend someone else's money to do it - but there's your sticking point. Mosschops
  • Score: 4

2:08pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Mosschops says...

Tony in Liberia wrote:
An absolutely brilliant article, a first-rate piece of journalism; possibly the best thing I've read in the Echo for many years. I found myself nodding in agreement with almost every superbly crafted word, and can't see how anyone could find anything to disagree with ....
Haha, did you get paid? Or at least a job offer.
[quote][p][bold]Tony in Liberia[/bold] wrote: An absolutely brilliant article, a first-rate piece of journalism; possibly the best thing I've read in the Echo for many years. I found myself nodding in agreement with almost every superbly crafted word, and can't see how anyone could find anything to disagree with ....[/p][/quote]Haha, did you get paid? Or at least a job offer. Mosschops
  • Score: -1

2:13pm Mon 28 Jul 14

vidman says...

JayRod to L'pool, Spider to tharse, NC to Spuds, JC and JF linked with several clubs.

Plus side Inter Milan in talks over Osvaldo.

Koeman linked to Norwich Dutch midfielder.
All on BBC/online sports.

Reed again refused o give TV interview.
JayRod to L'pool, Spider to tharse, NC to Spuds, JC and JF linked with several clubs. Plus side Inter Milan in talks over Osvaldo. Koeman linked to Norwich Dutch midfielder. All on BBC/online sports. Reed again refused o give TV interview. vidman
  • Score: -1

2:21pm Mon 28 Jul 14

warrens 76 says...

de Heiligen paard 101 wrote:
warrens 76 wrote:
Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of..

He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be..

Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this….

I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.
warrens have you woken up or is this still one of your dreams?

a) world class team? theres £100mill at least needed!
b) expanded the stadium? several 10`s of millions
c) created a global brand? how? he hadn't been doing it so far, in homage to seed, he signed a deal with aap3 who? then tried to get a deal with a `global brand` but couldn't so had to go back to aap3. lost the deal with adidas. not really the actions of someone trying to create a global brand is it?
c) (again) southern identity and kids? again been here for years and what has he done towards that so far? nothing!

warrens saint NC as you see him and those plans were totally unsustainable, it was a good dream but a dream that would have cost 100`s of millions of someone else`s money a year! for a start we would need to bring in `world class` players each year because even the top teams cant keep their players. it would have meant offering wages of £100k a week and more to try to keep the good players, lukes already earning that! its ok to dream when you aren't footing the bill. I don't know why you cant see that, I don't know why you cant see that getting into the top 4 isnt as easy or cheap as you think. I don't know why you cant see that even if we did get there the players would still want to move. I don't know why you cant understand that KL didn't want to fork out a small fortune to follow someone else`s dream. we weren't as close to the top 4 as some think. spuds spent over £100mill last season and didn't get near it. what makes you think we would?
The last four years and a monster profit on the books?
[quote][p][bold]de Heiligen paard 101[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of.. He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be.. Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this…. I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.[/p][/quote]warrens have you woken up or is this still one of your dreams? a) world class team? theres £100mill at least needed! b) expanded the stadium? several 10`s of millions c) created a global brand? how? he hadn't been doing it so far, in homage to seed, he signed a deal with aap3 who? then tried to get a deal with a `global brand` but couldn't so had to go back to aap3. lost the deal with adidas. not really the actions of someone trying to create a global brand is it? c) (again) southern identity and kids? again been here for years and what has he done towards that so far? nothing! warrens saint NC as you see him and those plans were totally unsustainable, it was a good dream but a dream that would have cost 100`s of millions of someone else`s money a year! for a start we would need to bring in `world class` players each year because even the top teams cant keep their players. it would have meant offering wages of £100k a week and more to try to keep the good players, lukes already earning that! its ok to dream when you aren't footing the bill. I don't know why you cant see that, I don't know why you cant see that getting into the top 4 isnt as easy or cheap as you think. I don't know why you cant see that even if we did get there the players would still want to move. I don't know why you cant understand that KL didn't want to fork out a small fortune to follow someone else`s dream. we weren't as close to the top 4 as some think. spuds spent over £100mill last season and didn't get near it. what makes you think we would?[/p][/quote]The last four years and a monster profit on the books? warrens 76
  • Score: -2

2:35pm Mon 28 Jul 14

warrens 76 says...

warrens 76 wrote:
de Heiligen paard 101 wrote:
warrens 76 wrote:
Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of..

He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be..

Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this….

I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.
warrens have you woken up or is this still one of your dreams?

a) world class team? theres £100mill at least needed!
b) expanded the stadium? several 10`s of millions
c) created a global brand? how? he hadn't been doing it so far, in homage to seed, he signed a deal with aap3 who? then tried to get a deal with a `global brand` but couldn't so had to go back to aap3. lost the deal with adidas. not really the actions of someone trying to create a global brand is it?
c) (again) southern identity and kids? again been here for years and what has he done towards that so far? nothing!

warrens saint NC as you see him and those plans were totally unsustainable, it was a good dream but a dream that would have cost 100`s of millions of someone else`s money a year! for a start we would need to bring in `world class` players each year because even the top teams cant keep their players. it would have meant offering wages of £100k a week and more to try to keep the good players, lukes already earning that! its ok to dream when you aren't footing the bill. I don't know why you cant see that, I don't know why you cant see that getting into the top 4 isnt as easy or cheap as you think. I don't know why you cant see that even if we did get there the players would still want to move. I don't know why you cant understand that KL didn't want to fork out a small fortune to follow someone else`s dream. we weren't as close to the top 4 as some think. spuds spent over £100mill last season and didn't get near it. what makes you think we would?
The last four years and a monster profit on the books?
Atletic Bilbao, Atletico Madrid and Porto have all proved it can be done…reach or win a European final…a good team, great work ethic, good forward planning, serious but sensible investment, remember winning increases a clubs player values dummy.

We at present have definitely lost the first three but for some people they stillcannot see what losing NC has done…..

..yes we will all support the Saints but for once we could have established ourselves there or there abouts and it hurts, it is and was unnecessary we were not nor ever likely to be a Leeds or Pmuff we are on the best footing in the league financially before one sale happened, what is wrong with some of you…

..christ on a bike I would not be able to afford a bike if I was as timid and frightened of expansion as you, once again KL is ALREADY sat on a fortune FROM SOUTHAMPTON FC there was no risk of actual loss, she already is 100+ million ahead on asset values! ffs.
[quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]de Heiligen paard 101[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of.. He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be.. Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this…. I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.[/p][/quote]warrens have you woken up or is this still one of your dreams? a) world class team? theres £100mill at least needed! b) expanded the stadium? several 10`s of millions c) created a global brand? how? he hadn't been doing it so far, in homage to seed, he signed a deal with aap3 who? then tried to get a deal with a `global brand` but couldn't so had to go back to aap3. lost the deal with adidas. not really the actions of someone trying to create a global brand is it? c) (again) southern identity and kids? again been here for years and what has he done towards that so far? nothing! warrens saint NC as you see him and those plans were totally unsustainable, it was a good dream but a dream that would have cost 100`s of millions of someone else`s money a year! for a start we would need to bring in `world class` players each year because even the top teams cant keep their players. it would have meant offering wages of £100k a week and more to try to keep the good players, lukes already earning that! its ok to dream when you aren't footing the bill. I don't know why you cant see that, I don't know why you cant see that getting into the top 4 isnt as easy or cheap as you think. I don't know why you cant see that even if we did get there the players would still want to move. I don't know why you cant understand that KL didn't want to fork out a small fortune to follow someone else`s dream. we weren't as close to the top 4 as some think. spuds spent over £100mill last season and didn't get near it. what makes you think we would?[/p][/quote]The last four years and a monster profit on the books?[/p][/quote]Atletic Bilbao, Atletico Madrid and Porto have all proved it can be done…reach or win a European final…a good team, great work ethic, good forward planning, serious but sensible investment, remember winning increases a clubs player values dummy. We at present have definitely lost the first three but for some people they stillcannot see what losing NC has done….. ..yes we will all support the Saints but for once we could have established ourselves there or there abouts and it hurts, it is and was unnecessary we were not nor ever likely to be a Leeds or Pmuff we are on the best footing in the league financially before one sale happened, what is wrong with some of you… ..christ on a bike I would not be able to afford a bike if I was as timid and frightened of expansion as you, once again KL is ALREADY sat on a fortune FROM SOUTHAMPTON FC there was no risk of actual loss, she already is 100+ million ahead on asset values! ffs. warrens 76
  • Score: -2

2:47pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Strasbourg Saint says...

Is there any way of giving Simon Carter a thumbs up for the article? Well done, Simon, you pretty much nailed it.

And well done Tony in Liberia (now Rwanda). Anyone who didn't catch his post on the 800+ Chambers thread should go and find it.
Is there any way of giving Simon Carter a thumbs up for the article? Well done, Simon, you pretty much nailed it. And well done Tony in Liberia (now Rwanda). Anyone who didn't catch his post on the 800+ Chambers thread should go and find it. Strasbourg Saint
  • Score: 3

2:59pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Rising_Son says...

Strasbourg Saint wrote:
Is there any way of giving Simon Carter a thumbs up for the article? Well done, Simon, you pretty much nailed it.

And well done Tony in Liberia (now Rwanda). Anyone who didn't catch his post on the 800+ Chambers thread should go and find it.
Did you enjoy the cricket?
[quote][p][bold]Strasbourg Saint[/bold] wrote: Is there any way of giving Simon Carter a thumbs up for the article? Well done, Simon, you pretty much nailed it. And well done Tony in Liberia (now Rwanda). Anyone who didn't catch his post on the 800+ Chambers thread should go and find it.[/p][/quote]Did you enjoy the cricket? Rising_Son
  • Score: 0

3:10pm Mon 28 Jul 14

OSPREYSAINT says...

warrens 76 wrote:
de Heiligen paard 101 wrote:
warrens 76 wrote:
Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of..

He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be..

Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this….

I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.
warrens have you woken up or is this still one of your dreams?

a) world class team? theres £100mill at least needed!
b) expanded the stadium? several 10`s of millions
c) created a global brand? how? he hadn't been doing it so far, in homage to seed, he signed a deal with aap3 who? then tried to get a deal with a `global brand` but couldn't so had to go back to aap3. lost the deal with adidas. not really the actions of someone trying to create a global brand is it?
c) (again) southern identity and kids? again been here for years and what has he done towards that so far? nothing!

warrens saint NC as you see him and those plans were totally unsustainable, it was a good dream but a dream that would have cost 100`s of millions of someone else`s money a year! for a start we would need to bring in `world class` players each year because even the top teams cant keep their players. it would have meant offering wages of £100k a week and more to try to keep the good players, lukes already earning that! its ok to dream when you aren't footing the bill. I don't know why you cant see that, I don't know why you cant see that getting into the top 4 isnt as easy or cheap as you think. I don't know why you cant see that even if we did get there the players would still want to move. I don't know why you cant understand that KL didn't want to fork out a small fortune to follow someone else`s dream. we weren't as close to the top 4 as some think. spuds spent over £100mill last season and didn't get near it. what makes you think we would?
The last four years and a monster profit on the books?
It bucks the normal trend, for someone to become a Millionaire football club owner they normally have to start with at least three million!
[quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]de Heiligen paard 101[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of.. He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be.. Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this…. I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.[/p][/quote]warrens have you woken up or is this still one of your dreams? a) world class team? theres £100mill at least needed! b) expanded the stadium? several 10`s of millions c) created a global brand? how? he hadn't been doing it so far, in homage to seed, he signed a deal with aap3 who? then tried to get a deal with a `global brand` but couldn't so had to go back to aap3. lost the deal with adidas. not really the actions of someone trying to create a global brand is it? c) (again) southern identity and kids? again been here for years and what has he done towards that so far? nothing! warrens saint NC as you see him and those plans were totally unsustainable, it was a good dream but a dream that would have cost 100`s of millions of someone else`s money a year! for a start we would need to bring in `world class` players each year because even the top teams cant keep their players. it would have meant offering wages of £100k a week and more to try to keep the good players, lukes already earning that! its ok to dream when you aren't footing the bill. I don't know why you cant see that, I don't know why you cant see that getting into the top 4 isnt as easy or cheap as you think. I don't know why you cant see that even if we did get there the players would still want to move. I don't know why you cant understand that KL didn't want to fork out a small fortune to follow someone else`s dream. we weren't as close to the top 4 as some think. spuds spent over £100mill last season and didn't get near it. what makes you think we would?[/p][/quote]The last four years and a monster profit on the books?[/p][/quote]It bucks the normal trend, for someone to become a Millionaire football club owner they normally have to start with at least three million! OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

3:38pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Shareholder says...

warrens 76 wrote:
Shareholder wrote:
warrens 76 wrote:
Shareholder wrote:
warrens 76 wrote:
Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of..

He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be..

Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this….

I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.
And how was Cortese going to achieve that? He promised an awful lot to both players and fans. The trouble is he didn't check with the owner that she was going to pay for it. The cost of maintaining such a high value club is enormous and it doesn't much matter how rich you are you still need the branding to be international and the stadium to be large enough to ensure your income streams can support the expenditure - and you need to have enough fans to fill the stadium. That all takes time, far longer than the splashing out on expensive players and their ever increasing wage demands. Cortese was happy to engage in the Premier League's nonsensical policy of allowing otherwise bankrupt clubs to continue spending in the pursuit of European pay days to service the debt. And there lies the real problem. The so called big clubs in the Premiership are all technically insolvent. They have to keep qualifying for the Champions League to service their ludicrous debts. They have to keep buying the best from so called lesser clubs to maintain that process - to create more debt. The Premier League will never do what American sports leagues have done and introduce wage caps and draft systems because that would inevitably lead to a Man Utd or an Arsenal going bust. And the media tycoons wouldn't like that as viewer confidence would fall and they'd lose profits. Then they wouldn't offer enough money to pay the silly wages the big boys pay out so the players would quit the UK for more lucrative climes. So don't blame our current board or our owner. Blame the real culprit - professional football. Be it the Premier League, UEFA, La Liga, FIFA etc it stinks to high heaven and we fans are mugs for putting up with it. While things stay as they are every team outside the mini league of the'top six' will continue to lose their best players. Our problem is we have seven or eight that fit the bill - Swansea have two or three and all of them are likely to go (see their fans outrage at that - it matches ours) and the same is true of any other club, it just depends on how many. And if Koeman does succeed expect more of the same next year. Cortese wanted to do it all in a rush - before likely quitting to go to bigger club in Spain or Italy. We should remember the words of Markus Liebherr when he was asked how he would achieve his ambitions for the club: 'In small steps' he said. He calculated his ambition of returning the club to the Premier League would take five years, after his death Cortese accelerated things and did it in four. I think Markus wouldn't have changed his approach had he lived and would take small steps towards the next goal of consistent European football. After all, small steps is how he built his fortune. So in this respect his daughter is more in line with her father's philosophy than was Cortese and I'm happy with that thanks. So let's get everything in perspective, support our club and all work however we can to help bring about the changes to our game that are so badly needed to restore balance and fairness.
No he was not bankrupting us.. the signings of all the players to long term contracts even MoPo £2 million was the work of a shrewd banker not the profligate chairman you allude to…

Using ML's money he turned a £14 million investment into £200-250 million…this is a completely different indeed unique situation for any club reaching the premier league…he did it shrewdly, that is what you are missing.
I've missed nothing. Firstly the Liebherr outlay was more like £80m once you take into account the initial purchase, the £33m invested after that which was converted to shareholdings and the£30m+ for Staplewood. Your estimate of the club's current worth is only that- an estimate. Cortese promised things to players and fans based on the owner being prepared to pump in many millions to fund his ambitions. Those promises were not based on a sound business base which would earn the money to support them. The owner has the right to run her business how she sees fit and she clearly wants the club to have more earning potential. How do you think Cortese was going to fund his plans? I don't personally think there's much astute about a plan that depends so much on huge cash injections from the owner. That begs the question of how you service that debt. Or do you think the owner should just keep pumping the money in? That way lies insolvency. It is certainly unrealistic. And anyway, why on earth should any of us trust a banker given their recent history?
Looking at the value we have achieved for players so far plus tv revenues you question him..glad you do not run my business's.
My business made £5m profit last year thanks. That was achieved by producing products people want to buy, good branding and marketing and sound management. It didn't rely on me pumping my own money in year after year. I did that in the early days and now the business makers profits and i was repaid a while ago. No different from the Liebherr situation. Cortese wanted to use someone else's money, not his own. And strangely enough it was Lowe that started the academy (and that's the only thing I praise him for) Cortese simply took it further. So thanks for the misguided advice but I think my business knowledge is based on a more sound knowledge of how things work than yours.
[quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shareholder[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shareholder[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of.. He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be.. Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this…. I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.[/p][/quote]And how was Cortese going to achieve that? He promised an awful lot to both players and fans. The trouble is he didn't check with the owner that she was going to pay for it. The cost of maintaining such a high value club is enormous and it doesn't much matter how rich you are you still need the branding to be international and the stadium to be large enough to ensure your income streams can support the expenditure - and you need to have enough fans to fill the stadium. That all takes time, far longer than the splashing out on expensive players and their ever increasing wage demands. Cortese was happy to engage in the Premier League's nonsensical policy of allowing otherwise bankrupt clubs to continue spending in the pursuit of European pay days to service the debt. And there lies the real problem. The so called big clubs in the Premiership are all technically insolvent. They have to keep qualifying for the Champions League to service their ludicrous debts. They have to keep buying the best from so called lesser clubs to maintain that process - to create more debt. The Premier League will never do what American sports leagues have done and introduce wage caps and draft systems because that would inevitably lead to a Man Utd or an Arsenal going bust. And the media tycoons wouldn't like that as viewer confidence would fall and they'd lose profits. Then they wouldn't offer enough money to pay the silly wages the big boys pay out so the players would quit the UK for more lucrative climes. So don't blame our current board or our owner. Blame the real culprit - professional football. Be it the Premier League, UEFA, La Liga, FIFA etc it stinks to high heaven and we fans are mugs for putting up with it. While things stay as they are every team outside the mini league of the'top six' will continue to lose their best players. Our problem is we have seven or eight that fit the bill - Swansea have two or three and all of them are likely to go (see their fans outrage at that - it matches ours) and the same is true of any other club, it just depends on how many. And if Koeman does succeed expect more of the same next year. Cortese wanted to do it all in a rush - before likely quitting to go to bigger club in Spain or Italy. We should remember the words of Markus Liebherr when he was asked how he would achieve his ambitions for the club: 'In small steps' he said. He calculated his ambition of returning the club to the Premier League would take five years, after his death Cortese accelerated things and did it in four. I think Markus wouldn't have changed his approach had he lived and would take small steps towards the next goal of consistent European football. After all, small steps is how he built his fortune. So in this respect his daughter is more in line with her father's philosophy than was Cortese and I'm happy with that thanks. So let's get everything in perspective, support our club and all work however we can to help bring about the changes to our game that are so badly needed to restore balance and fairness.[/p][/quote]No he was not bankrupting us.. the signings of all the players to long term contracts even MoPo £2 million was the work of a shrewd banker not the profligate chairman you allude to… Using ML's money he turned a £14 million investment into £200-250 million…this is a completely different indeed unique situation for any club reaching the premier league…he did it shrewdly, that is what you are missing.[/p][/quote]I've missed nothing. Firstly the Liebherr outlay was more like £80m once you take into account the initial purchase, the £33m invested after that which was converted to shareholdings and the£30m+ for Staplewood. Your estimate of the club's current worth is only that- an estimate. Cortese promised things to players and fans based on the owner being prepared to pump in many millions to fund his ambitions. Those promises were not based on a sound business base which would earn the money to support them. The owner has the right to run her business how she sees fit and she clearly wants the club to have more earning potential. How do you think Cortese was going to fund his plans? I don't personally think there's much astute about a plan that depends so much on huge cash injections from the owner. That begs the question of how you service that debt. Or do you think the owner should just keep pumping the money in? That way lies insolvency. It is certainly unrealistic. And anyway, why on earth should any of us trust a banker given their recent history?[/p][/quote]Looking at the value we have achieved for players so far plus tv revenues you question him..glad you do not run my business's.[/p][/quote]My business made £5m profit last year thanks. That was achieved by producing products people want to buy, good branding and marketing and sound management. It didn't rely on me pumping my own money in year after year. I did that in the early days and now the business makers profits and i was repaid a while ago. No different from the Liebherr situation. Cortese wanted to use someone else's money, not his own. And strangely enough it was Lowe that started the academy (and that's the only thing I praise him for) Cortese simply took it further. So thanks for the misguided advice but I think my business knowledge is based on a more sound knowledge of how things work than yours. Shareholder
  • Score: 1

3:43pm Mon 28 Jul 14

de Heiligen paard 101 says...

warrens 76 wrote:
warrens 76 wrote:
de Heiligen paard 101 wrote:
warrens 76 wrote:
Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of..

He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be..

Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this….

I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.
warrens have you woken up or is this still one of your dreams?

a) world class team? theres £100mill at least needed!
b) expanded the stadium? several 10`s of millions
c) created a global brand? how? he hadn't been doing it so far, in homage to seed, he signed a deal with aap3 who? then tried to get a deal with a `global brand` but couldn't so had to go back to aap3. lost the deal with adidas. not really the actions of someone trying to create a global brand is it?
c) (again) southern identity and kids? again been here for years and what has he done towards that so far? nothing!

warrens saint NC as you see him and those plans were totally unsustainable, it was a good dream but a dream that would have cost 100`s of millions of someone else`s money a year! for a start we would need to bring in `world class` players each year because even the top teams cant keep their players. it would have meant offering wages of £100k a week and more to try to keep the good players, lukes already earning that! its ok to dream when you aren't footing the bill. I don't know why you cant see that, I don't know why you cant see that getting into the top 4 isnt as easy or cheap as you think. I don't know why you cant see that even if we did get there the players would still want to move. I don't know why you cant understand that KL didn't want to fork out a small fortune to follow someone else`s dream. we weren't as close to the top 4 as some think. spuds spent over £100mill last season and didn't get near it. what makes you think we would?
The last four years and a monster profit on the books?
Atletic Bilbao, Atletico Madrid and Porto have all proved it can be done…reach or win a European final…a good team, great work ethic, good forward planning, serious but sensible investment, remember winning increases a clubs player values dummy.

We at present have definitely lost the first three but for some people they stillcannot see what losing NC has done…..

..yes we will all support the Saints but for once we could have established ourselves there or there abouts and it hurts, it is and was unnecessary we were not nor ever likely to be a Leeds or Pmuff we are on the best footing in the league financially before one sale happened, what is wrong with some of you…

..christ on a bike I would not be able to afford a bike if I was as timid and frightened of expansion as you, once again KL is ALREADY sat on a fortune FROM SOUTHAMPTON FC there was no risk of actual loss, she already is 100+ million ahead on asset values! ffs.
your missing the point though.
she would be £100mill up if she sold, and it doesn't look like she wants to.
yes atletico Madrid did it, and now they are paying the price, have you seen how many of their players have left or going? do you think they will be able to repeat that next year? they also had one of the best young goalkeepers in the world in the squad, but he was on loan from chelski how brought him from another mid level team and loaned him out for eventually more money than they paid for him, and have now taken him back. we could have shot for the stars your right but at what cost? why don't you get that the players were always going to go this year? luke was told he could go by NC the wonderful, how is that forward planning? lielanna was probably given the same deal. dejerk told he could go for a £20mill offer. and rickie wouldn't have stayed for the second half of the season if Osvaldo hadn't gone looney. Osvaldo didn't want to be here anyway so he would still have gone. so still no rickie or Osvaldo. forward planning?
do you really think that football owners don't make a loss?
do you really think that KL wouldn't have had the best advisors giving her the information and what the risks to rewards were? do you really think that you or me are better placed to tell her what to do and what the opportunities are? we only see things from the outside, we do not know the ins and outs of the financial standing of the club so to give a value on the club or say how much she has r hasn't made s just pure guesswork. I know some think the board are sat on their hands waiting for things to happen, but do they really think that. people want statements from ralph and les reed but when they get them thejust call them liars, and all sorts of names. Ronnie is the man who is the figure head of the club and the one who should be talking to the press. how often did we hear from NC the ever present? how long after adkins was sacked did he give us an explanation? did he issue a statement every time we were looking to buy players? I know people are angry, I am as well, but the anger is aimed at the wrong people. calling kL all sorts of vile names is disgusting and people should be ashamed of themselves. what ould happen if she just pulled the plug and failed to invest anything into the club? we would end up like villa, no money to spend and relying on youth players while the owner puts the club up for sale with no buyers! that what people who talk about asset stripping to sell don't understand. they think theres a long list of multi-billionaires queuing up to buy prem clubs, there aren't! if one wants to buy a club they would want to see the better players still at the club.
[quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]de Heiligen paard 101[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]warrens 76[/bold] wrote: Had Cortese been here to finish the plan we would, a have a world class team b) have expanded the stadium c) created a global brand..c) created a southern identity youngsters want to be part of.. He would have assured our future by making us into something we shall never now be.. Lowe and I had a furious row about his lack of vision when building the ground to 32.500 instead of 42.000 with a cost difference at the time of 6 million….think of the ongoing implications of this…. I truly hate myself for loving a club that has consistantly been so small minded…I thought those days were over, alas no.[/p][/quote]warrens have you woken up or is this still one of your dreams? a) world class team? theres £100mill at least needed! b) expanded the stadium? several 10`s of millions c) created a global brand? how? he hadn't been doing it so far, in homage to seed, he signed a deal with aap3 who? then tried to get a deal with a `global brand` but couldn't so had to go back to aap3. lost the deal with adidas. not really the actions of someone trying to create a global brand is it? c) (again) southern identity and kids? again been here for years and what has he done towards that so far? nothing! warrens saint NC as you see him and those plans were totally unsustainable, it was a good dream but a dream that would have cost 100`s of millions of someone else`s money a year! for a start we would need to bring in `world class` players each year because even the top teams cant keep their players. it would have meant offering wages of £100k a week and more to try to keep the good players, lukes already earning that! its ok to dream when you aren't footing the bill. I don't know why you cant see that, I don't know why you cant see that getting into the top 4 isnt as easy or cheap as you think. I don't know why you cant see that even if we did get there the players would still want to move. I don't know why you cant understand that KL didn't want to fork out a small fortune to follow someone else`s dream. we weren't as close to the top 4 as some think. spuds spent over £100mill last season and didn't get near it. what makes you think we would?[/p][/quote]The last four years and a monster profit on the books?[/p][/quote]Atletic Bilbao, Atletico Madrid and Porto have all proved it can be done…reach or win a European final…a good team, great work ethic, good forward planning, serious but sensible investment, remember winning increases a clubs player values dummy. We at present have definitely lost the first three but for some people they stillcannot see what losing NC has done….. ..yes we will all support the Saints but for once we could have established ourselves there or there abouts and it hurts, it is and was unnecessary we were not nor ever likely to be a Leeds or Pmuff we are on the best footing in the league financially before one sale happened, what is wrong with some of you… ..christ on a bike I would not be able to afford a bike if I was as timid and frightened of expansion as you, once again KL is ALREADY sat on a fortune FROM SOUTHAMPTON FC there was no risk of actual loss, she already is 100+ million ahead on asset values! ffs.[/p][/quote]your missing the point though. she would be £100mill up if she sold, and it doesn't look like she wants to. yes atletico Madrid did it, and now they are paying the price, have you seen how many of their players have left or going? do you think they will be able to repeat that next year? they also had one of the best young goalkeepers in the world in the squad, but he was on loan from chelski how brought him from another mid level team and loaned him out for eventually more money than they paid for him, and have now taken him back. we could have shot for the stars your right but at what cost? why don't you get that the players were always going to go this year? luke was told he could go by NC the wonderful, how is that forward planning? lielanna was probably given the same deal. dejerk told he could go for a £20mill offer. and rickie wouldn't have stayed for the second half of the season if Osvaldo hadn't gone looney. Osvaldo didn't want to be here anyway so he would still have gone. so still no rickie or Osvaldo. forward planning? do you really think that football owners don't make a loss? do you really think that KL wouldn't have had the best advisors giving her the information and what the risks to rewards were? do you really think that you or me are better placed to tell her what to do and what the opportunities are? we only see things from the outside, we do not know the ins and outs of the financial standing of the club so to give a value on the club or say how much she has r hasn't made s just pure guesswork. I know some think the board are sat on their hands waiting for things to happen, but do they really think that. people want statements from ralph and les reed but when they get them thejust call them liars, and all sorts of names. Ronnie is the man who is the figure head of the club and the one who should be talking to the press. how often did we hear from NC the ever present? how long after adkins was sacked did he give us an explanation? did he issue a statement every time we were looking to buy players? I know people are angry, I am as well, but the anger is aimed at the wrong people. calling kL all sorts of vile names is disgusting and people should be ashamed of themselves. what ould happen if she just pulled the plug and failed to invest anything into the club? we would end up like villa, no money to spend and relying on youth players while the owner puts the club up for sale with no buyers! that what people who talk about asset stripping to sell don't understand. they think theres a long list of multi-billionaires queuing up to buy prem clubs, there aren't! if one wants to buy a club they would want to see the better players still at the club. de Heiligen paard 101
  • Score: 0

3:43pm Mon 28 Jul 14

OSPREYSAINT says...

I can't put my finger on it, by I have a sneaky suspicion that we are a selling Club after all, will we actually ever be a purchasing Club is the next Question.
I can't put my finger on it, by I have a sneaky suspicion that we are a selling Club after all, will we actually ever be a purchasing Club is the next Question. OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

4:02pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Saintjock says...

Have to ask why there's not more journalism from the DE reporters - make some calls, call in contacts, meet in car parks and whatever else you do to break news. All this is is blogging.
Have to ask why there's not more journalism from the DE reporters - make some calls, call in contacts, meet in car parks and whatever else you do to break news. All this is is blogging. Saintjock
  • Score: 0

4:44pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Shareholder says...

Saintjock wrote:
Have to ask why there's not more journalism from the DE reporters - make some calls, call in contacts, meet in car parks and whatever else you do to break news. All this is is blogging.
Maybe it's better to refer to us as an improving club - improving players that is. After all Tadic said that's the reason he came as he saw us as a club that improves players and sells them for big money. Frankly I don't know how you can stop what's happening to us once the top six come calling and the players and their agents decide it's time to leave.
[quote][p][bold]Saintjock[/bold] wrote: Have to ask why there's not more journalism from the DE reporters - make some calls, call in contacts, meet in car parks and whatever else you do to break news. All this is is blogging.[/p][/quote]Maybe it's better to refer to us as an improving club - improving players that is. After all Tadic said that's the reason he came as he saw us as a club that improves players and sells them for big money. Frankly I don't know how you can stop what's happening to us once the top six come calling and the players and their agents decide it's time to leave. Shareholder
  • Score: 0

4:45pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Shareholder says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
I can't put my finger on it, by I have a sneaky suspicion that we are a selling Club after all, will we actually ever be a purchasing Club is the next Question.
Maybe it's better to refer to us as an improving club - improving players that is. After all Tadic said that's the reason he came as he saw us as a club that improves players and sells them for big money. Frankly I don't know how you can stop what's happening to us once the top six come calling and the players and their agents decide it's time to leave.
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: I can't put my finger on it, by I have a sneaky suspicion that we are a selling Club after all, will we actually ever be a purchasing Club is the next Question.[/p][/quote]Maybe it's better to refer to us as an improving club - improving players that is. After all Tadic said that's the reason he came as he saw us as a club that improves players and sells them for big money. Frankly I don't know how you can stop what's happening to us once the top six come calling and the players and their agents decide it's time to leave. Shareholder
  • Score: 1

5:19pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Strasbourg Saint says...

Rising_Son wrote:
Strasbourg Saint wrote:
Is there any way of giving Simon Carter a thumbs up for the article? Well done, Simon, you pretty much nailed it.

And well done Tony in Liberia (now Rwanda). Anyone who didn't catch his post on the 800+ Chambers thread should go and find it.
Did you enjoy the cricket?
Yes thanks, RS. It was a somewhat slow day but a good solid England start which they've built on brilliantly today, I see.

Flew home this morning. Left Hampshire to early morning sunshine and drove into a horrible Sussex thunderstorms. God really IS a Saint.
[quote][p][bold]Rising_Son[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Strasbourg Saint[/bold] wrote: Is there any way of giving Simon Carter a thumbs up for the article? Well done, Simon, you pretty much nailed it. And well done Tony in Liberia (now Rwanda). Anyone who didn't catch his post on the 800+ Chambers thread should go and find it.[/p][/quote]Did you enjoy the cricket?[/p][/quote]Yes thanks, RS. It was a somewhat slow day but a good solid England start which they've built on brilliantly today, I see. Flew home this morning. Left Hampshire to early morning sunshine and drove into a horrible Sussex thunderstorms. God really IS a Saint. Strasbourg Saint
  • Score: 0

8:13pm Mon 28 Jul 14

mesaint says...

Shareholder wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
I can't put my finger on it, by I have a sneaky suspicion that we are a selling Club after all, will we actually ever be a purchasing Club is the next Question.
Maybe it's better to refer to us as an improving club - improving players that is. After all Tadic said that's the reason he came as he saw us as a club that improves players and sells them for big money. Frankly I don't know how you can stop what's happening to us once the top six come calling and the players and their agents decide it's time to leave.
What I would like to know is..for all those moaning.will they still buy tickets to go to anfield.thus giving the owner even more money..thus have her thinking she did the right thing..or make her think ,,oh dear no away support .somehow supporters will support no matter what..so what's the point in complaining what she is doing...and it is her because directors are only doing what she says...Nicola cortèse stated he would not have sold them...hense why he left.as it was not up to him....I do apologise for my spelling if bad....though katrina or the board won't say sorry for selling players.and buying future liverhampton ot tothampton or south arsenal players..
[quote][p][bold]Shareholder[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: I can't put my finger on it, by I have a sneaky suspicion that we are a selling Club after all, will we actually ever be a purchasing Club is the next Question.[/p][/quote]Maybe it's better to refer to us as an improving club - improving players that is. After all Tadic said that's the reason he came as he saw us as a club that improves players and sells them for big money. Frankly I don't know how you can stop what's happening to us once the top six come calling and the players and their agents decide it's time to leave.[/p][/quote]What I would like to know is..for all those moaning.will they still buy tickets to go to anfield.thus giving the owner even more money..thus have her thinking she did the right thing..or make her think ,,oh dear no away support .somehow supporters will support no matter what..so what's the point in complaining what she is doing...and it is her because directors are only doing what she says...Nicola cortèse stated he would not have sold them...hense why he left.as it was not up to him....I do apologise for my spelling if bad....though katrina or the board won't say sorry for selling players.and buying future liverhampton ot tothampton or south arsenal players.. mesaint
  • Score: 0

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