Tory backs land probe (From Basingstoke Gazette)
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Tory backs land probe
4:00pm Sunday 17th June 2012 in Local By Simon Moss
Cllr Sven Godesen
A CONSERVATIVE councillor has broken ranks to declare his support for an independent investigation into the Manydown land saga.
Councillor Sven Godesen, who represents the Basing ward on Basingstoke and Deane Borough Council, has said he is willing to go against his own party to ensure “the right thing” is done.
Members have to deal with the aftermath of April’s High Court ruling, which blasted the council’s handling of the 820-hectare land as “unlawful and irrational”.
Basingstoke and Deane Borough Council was criticised after failing to consider building homes on the land as part of a borough-wide plan covering the next 15 years.
The Manydown Company, which sold the land to the council in 1996, began legal action at the end of last year when the Tory administration refused to consider the site for development.
Company bosses said they sold the land on the understanding it would be used for house-building, from which they will take part of the profits.
Instead, it has been claimed by political opponents that the Conservatives are deliberately blocking development on Manydown to protect seats to the west of Basingstoke.
Cllr Godesen said any investigation has to be carried out independently to ensure residents are satisfied with the outcome.
He told The Gazette: “I feel strongly that this is a boil that needs to be lanced. We do need an investigation and that needs to be conducted by an independent, third party if for no other reason than the conclusions will then have to be accepted by all.”
Cllr Godesen, whose Basing ward was earmarked for building sites in the initial development plans, added: “There is a danger that if we conduct this investigation in-house, then the results will be challenged as not being carried out properly. All voters must be satisfied that this situation has been resolved.”
Council leader Cllr Clive Sanders said he did not agree with his Tory colleague. He added: “What I would prefer is that we set up a proper scrutiny committee to have a look at the events. I would even be happy for that to be chaired by a member of another party. That way we could hold meetings in the full glare of the public and everybody can see what is being said.
“If we employ a third party, they will go off and make this report in private.”
The council meets on Thursday, July 12 to discuss whether to fund an independent investigation by auditors Ernst and Young.
Comments(28)
popleyrebel2
says...
6:25pm Sun 17 Jun 12
Quote from Council leader Cllr Clive Sanders.
“What I would prefer is that we set up a proper scrutiny committee to have a look at the events.
Un-quote.
Question, what is a “proper” scrutiny committee, does this mean they have one but it’s not so proper?
Furthermore, what input did this (not so proper scrutiny committee) play in the Manydown sags?
popleyrebel2.
says...
6:40pm Sun 17 Jun 12
popleyrebel2
says...
7:39pm Sun 17 Jun 12
I take no responsibility for any posts/comments from the imposter above.
Thank you
Pacifier
says...
5:56pm Mon 18 Jun 12
Best_Name_Ever
says...
6:11pm Mon 18 Jun 12
Pacifier
says...
9:23pm Mon 18 Jun 12
ThomasPaine
says...
10:05pm Mon 18 Jun 12
They did everything they could to stitch up the planning process and they were found unlawful in the High Court.
Now they want to brush it all under the carpet with a committee that will have a built in Tory majority, this is nothing short of a charade.
The only investigation that anyone will believe is one that is totally independent of the Council, but one that will get all the information it needs.
Problem is I imagine that the records are being shredded and the evidence disposed of! The Tories will do everything they can to hide the truth.
There are obviously some pretty big questions to answer, like who decided the council would defend the Judicial Review and spend thousands of pounds of taxpayer’s money in the first place? Who decided that Manydown was ‘not available’ rather than simply wasn’t being ‘promoted’?
What was Cllr Golding doing anywhere near a planning decision, as the Cabinet Member the Tories put in charge of the Local Plan, after he had publicly stated his total opposition to developing Manydown.
It is also very strange that the County have gone quiet in all of this, but of course it’s there land to the east of the Borough that is targeted for development so they stand to gain millions of pounds there, and they also stand to gain millions if Manydown is developed. Who is a Cabinet member down at County now, none other than County Cllr Stephen Reid.
This whole scandal stinks and for the Tories to want to scrutinise themselves, it could not be any more corrupt. The Tories have turned Basingstoke Council into a rotten borough.
Cllr Godeson has been brave enough to speak out, good on him. If there were only a few more decent Tories among the rotten bunch?
The Mad Mike 1
says...
10:39pm Mon 18 Jun 12
He also reminds me that hie council had a court jugment go against them and went on to dispute it in the high court at tax payers expence,coincedence, it's the tories all over"it's not my money so why worry",if every tory coucilor who was involved were fined £1,000 out of their own pocket then and only then,might see a difference,i won't hold my breath.
The _right_stuff
says...
11:45pm Mon 18 Jun 12
ThomasPaine wrote:The original 'The _right_stuff' has only one space between the e and _ (underscore), has no capital R or S and no other spaces.
So the Tories want a ‘proper scrutiny committee’ run by councillors. What a farce!
They did everything they could to stitch up the planning process and they were found unlawful in the High Court.
Now they want to brush it all under the carpet with a committee that will have a built in Tory majority, this is nothing short of a charade.
The only investigation that anyone will believe is one that is totally independent of the Council, but one that will get all the information it needs.
Problem is I imagine that the records are being shredded and the evidence disposed of! The Tories will do everything they can to hide the truth.
There are obviously some pretty big questions to answer, like who decided the council would defend the Judicial Review and spend thousands of pounds of taxpayer’s money in the first place? Who decided that Manydown was ‘not available’ rather than simply wasn’t being ‘promoted’?
What was Cllr Golding doing anywhere near a planning decision, as the Cabinet Member the Tories put in charge of the Local Plan, after he had publicly stated his total opposition to developing Manydown.
It is also very strange that the County have gone quiet in all of this, but of course it’s there land to the east of the Borough that is targeted for development so they stand to gain millions of pounds there, and they also stand to gain millions if Manydown is developed. Who is a Cabinet member down at County now, none other than County Cllr Stephen Reid.
This whole scandal stinks and for the Tories to want to scrutinise themselves, it could not be any more corrupt. The Tories have turned Basingstoke Council into a rotten borough.
Cllr Godeson has been brave enough to speak out, good on him. If there were only a few more decent Tories among the rotten bunch?
ThomasPaine.
I agree with you totally.
Look at the AGA committee ! chaired by none other than one of the Tory cabinet, who was in the cabinet while this sorry saga was carried out and voted for the LDF to go through while not listening to any of the other councilors, concerned residents, SOLVE, County watch or anyone else.
I'll be watching to see how fair the investigation is from here as long as it gets through the cabinet in July for funding (and if it doesn't there will be an uproar).
The Borough need a root and branch change to this council.
To scrutinise itself and come up with a clear and comprehensive policy of honesty and transparency as no one trusts the Torys over this issue.
Everyone you speak to has no good words for what is happening here.
And the Borough must look like a joke from outside.
oh....and wouldn't it be great if another Tory walked over to the other benches making it...30 tory seats and 30 other parties and independants : )
The _right_stuff
says...
11:53pm Mon 18 Jun 12
popleyrebel2 wrote:The original 'The _right_stuff' has only one space between the e and _ (underscore), has no capital R or S and no other spaces.
The original popleyrebel2 without the./full stop after the 2.
An Independent investigation is paramount, you can’t have those who acted unlawfully investigating themselves.
popleyrebel2 (The original popleyrebel2 without the./full stop after the 2.).
I total agree with your comments too in not having those involved investigating themselves.
It only makes sense that we end up with a transparent process...and anyway, I think everyone is hoping that someone will take some responsibility for all this unlawfulness....but not one has so far.
P Heath
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11:16am Tue 19 Jun 12
Mayor_Joe_Quimby
says...
3:44pm Tue 19 Jun 12
Pacifier
says...
4:43pm Tue 19 Jun 12
Mayor_Joe_Quimby
says...
4:50pm Tue 19 Jun 12
Some people are worthy of respect, some are clearly not.
It never truly matters how is in charge, it's all much of a muchness and I personally think they are all a bunch of pocket filling Charlatans, regardless of the colour of their brand of politik.
Did we not have a lib/lab coalition in recent history? What was there take on the whole Manydown gig? Was it less important that spending money on filling in bus stops and building speed humps?
Quimbo
says...
8:29pm Tue 19 Jun 12
MrNosey
says...
7:08am Wed 20 Jun 12
The best bet for the Tory administration would be to table a motion to accept the Ernst & Young review.
To push for an internal review would enlarge the hole they are already in.
Mayor_Joe_Quimby
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9:05am Wed 20 Jun 12
tasha-r
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10:00am Wed 20 Jun 12
I hope that the Liberal Democrat councillors will join the opposition in demanding this - otherwise they will be tarred with the same brush.
What is it that the Conservatives and the Council officers are trying to hide? If they don't appoint an independent review it will always smell fishy and there will never be closure on this issue.
Mayor_Joe_Quimby
says...
11:52am Wed 20 Jun 12
Musketeer
says...
12:05pm Wed 20 Jun 12
An internal enquiry would be pointless and a fudge. For example Ernst & Young have already found that the results of a Councillor FOI show that “the number of emails provided for that request was significantly lower than the emails which existed”. (AGA 21st May).
You cannot audit yourself – suggest the Inland Revenue might have some thoughts on that!
As a tax-payer I wince at the £100k but frankly if any lessons are learned and it avoids another Judicial Review I would consider it a wise investment.
There are some excellent Councillors across the parties/independents who do aspire to do the right thing – we can only hope their wisdom prevails.
ThomasPaine
says...
1:34pm Wed 20 Jun 12
As I understand it the Labour Liberal Democrat Administration put the land forward for development.
The Tories used Manydown to take control of the Council again in 2006 and they have tried to stop Manydown being developed. They quite corruptly manipulated the planning process, but they were found out. They were found to have been unlawful.
I feel sorry for all the people who voted Tory thinking that they would save Manydown, they have stitched them up by acting so irresponsibly. In the end we’ve wound up with the whole of Basingstoke being left exposed to developers because of the Tories.
The councillors that made those promises, Cllr Golding, Cllr Donnell, Cllr Reid, Cllr Finney, Cllr Peach have all been part of this scandal voting for things that were unlawful. Golding was the Cabinet Member who made the decision to exclude Manydown. Cllr Reid used his casting vote in crucial meetings and the rest all played their parts when needed. That abuse of power needs investigating.
The Tories have done so much damage and the officers of the council that advised them got it so wrong that their judgement is questionable. But it was the Tories who made the decisions.
This whole thing stinks. Any inquiry has to be far reaching, it has to have access to all the papers and the decisions and it needs lawyers involved because these councillors have done things that were unlawful.
I think this prevarication over an independent inquiry is all about giving them time to get rid of all the evidence and allow planning applications on the other sites around Basingstoke to come forward. Clive Sanders the new Tory Leader was a Cabinet Member through every decision the Tories took over the last few years on Manydown, he is just as tainted as the rest.
The idea that they can decide themselves to scrutinise themselves is so disgraceful. I hope the opposition can get together over this. There are some good councillors trying to open this whole thing up. Sven’s argument is right. But he won’t get justice for the people living in Old Basing if he remains a Tory. The Tories are tainted by this whole scandal.
Mayor_Joe_Quimby
says...
1:57pm Wed 20 Jun 12
And B&DBC is run by just 6 councillors - Cllr Golding, Cllr Donnell, Cllr Reid, Cllr Finney, Cllr Peach - what happened to the other 50 or so we are paying for?
ChinehamIan
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2:40pm Wed 20 Jun 12
Mayor_Joe_Quimby
says...
3:22pm Wed 20 Jun 12
Interesting.
ThomasPaine
says...
5:14pm Wed 20 Jun 12
To be fair to the opposition, all 29 of them they have consistently opposed what the Tory majority have been doing, but until Onnalee and Sven came along the Tories have just voted on block. It would appear that the rest of them were in fear of the mafia!
klorane
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6:01pm Thu 21 Jun 12
I wonder who was involved in Berkshire.
Mayor_Joe_Quimby
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8:58pm Tue 26 Jun 12
At the time that "Liberal Democrat and Labour Coalition lost control of the council because they wanted to develop Manydown" would you know what Cllr Phillip Heath was proposing?
The _right_stuff says...
6:10pm Sun 17 Jun 12
Clrs Godesen and Clr Cubitt have my respect as the only conservative councillors to have voted against their own party for and on behalf of their residents in the Manydown fiasco.
They both voted for what was right and not the party whip.
Lets just hope that honesty endures throughout any investigation.
* note : Obviously Clr Cubitt is now an independent councilor.